Dr Fallon (00:37)
If you're the parent of a toddler who's had ongoing sleep difficulty since birth, chances are you're battling extreme unrelenting fatigue. How can parents possibly begin to make changes to their little one's sleep on the back of months of their own sleep deprivation? Especially when the sleep deprivation has contributed to increased depression and anxiety symptoms.
This week, we're going to discuss strategies parents can use to manage their own fatigue when working towards improving their little one's sleep. Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast companion to the Sombelle pediatric sleep programs created by us. I'm Dr. Fallon Cook, and I'm here with Dr. Laura Conway, and we're the co-directors of Infant Sleep Australia. How are you going this week, Laura?
Dr Laura (01:32)
Yeah, I'm good. Thanks, Fallon. We've had a couple of weeks of school holidays here in Victoria. So I've just come back from a couple of days down at the beach with some friends and my kids, which was lovely. But we've also flown straight into daylight savings. So I'm feeling a little bit tired today with an hour less sleep.
Dr Fallon (01:39)
Mmm.
heaven.
I know. Me too. Yes. And I've got kids who every now and then keep running past the window. So I'm hoping they'll be quiet enough. It's just nice to see them outside though and not on their screens for a change. There's probably been a bit too much screen time in these school holidays. But what do you do?
Dr Laura (02:08)
Yes, and we're recording this on a Sunday, which we don't normally do. Normally, we record this on a Monday morning, but you've had a bit of a rubbish piece of news, haven't you, Fallon? So why don't you tell us?
Dr Fallon (02:22)
Yeah, I've had the worst week and I'm about to have an even worse week ahead. yeah. So I went to, I went to see a surgeon last week because I have this lump on the back of my head. and I were like, yep, we'll just cut this out. It's all good. We'll do it today. And then he went in there and kind of went, no, we won't be taking this out today. Apparently, you know, like when you're getting something like that done and the room goes quiet and you're like, crap. What?
Dr Laura (02:49)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Dr Fallon (02:52)
What have you found? Anyway, he wouldn't tell me what it was, but I, yeah, I'm a little bit nervous about it. But anyway, he just, he wants to take it out with me in hospital tomorrow. So I'm going in for surgery stupidly early tomorrow morning. It's the first day back of school for the kids and yeah, they're going to be up ridiculously early to get ready. anyway, whole big schmuzzle trying to manage that tomorrow. And yeah, so like since last week, I've had a big scar down the back of my head.
Dr Laura (03:17)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (03:22)
with stitches and I was kind of giggling to myself because I, I, it was hard, but I pushed through last week and I saw, I think about six clients for appointments towards the end of the week. And I was feeling rubbish and I kept kind of giggling to myself. Cause it's like, I looked very business at the front. Like no one would know anything looked very professional. And there's just like this wound on the back of my head. like business at the front, Frankenstein at the back.
Dr Laura (03:22)
Mmm.
Mm.
Yes! you poor thing.
Dr Fallon (03:50)
no one knew, but my gosh, it was such a struggle. because it was very painful and trying to see clients, but I didn't want anyone to be, delayed, you know, a couple of weeks. so yes, tomorrow is going to be a bit of a scary worrying day for me, but I'm hoping that whatever it is, is nothing serious. And, I'll be having a pretty quiet week. I've got some appointments that are where I'm seeing families on Friday that I'm hoping I'll be.
Dr Laura (03:55)
Yes.
No.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (04:20)
well enough for. But yeah, if you are sending us emails or you're a client with a question or something like that, just please be super patient because it will be mostly you, Laura, managing the show for the next week or so.
Dr Laura (04:21)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, so thank you to those families who have responded when we've emailed saying that we need to switch over from seeing you to seeing me next week. And obviously I already have a full calendar. So we've had to offer those families spaces between my already existing appointments. So thank you so much to all of you who have been really flexible.
Dr Fallon (04:49)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (05:04)
So that we can still see, well, I can still see you next week, but not at the time that you originally booked.
Dr Fallon (05:04)
Yeah.
Yeah, you're going to be flat out Laura, but this has always just been the way it is. Isn't it? It's just, we don't have a whole lot of stuff. We don't have other practitioners. it really is just us. If you email us, it's, it's us. We're the ones reading the email. and anytime one of us gets sick, the other one is absolutely just smashed with work. You know, we see so many clients. We've trying to keep everybody happy.
Dr Laura (05:16)
that's right.
It's us. Yes.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (05:38)
And I mean, it's probably worth mentioning if you are booked in to see Laura this week and you think, I don't really need this appointment. I could wait a little bit. you know, let us know. Cause if anyone is really happy to reschedule for a later time, this would be the week. This would be the week for it. Yeah.
Dr Laura (05:46)
Mm-hmm.
Yes, it'll be the week to do it. Yeah. And those people who are listening, who run your own small businesses, you know what it's like. Yeah, it's you don't ever have downtime really. And we're delighted it's been a major passion project for us. And we love how well Sombelle has been embraced in the community.
Dr Fallon (06:00)
they know.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (06:17)
And we know it's just, you it is a really lovely community that we've created. And we just thank you all for your support as we navigate the ups and downs of life. So yeah, thank you all.
Dr Fallon (06:26)
Yeah.
It's so tough, isn't it? I feel like, you know, one day we should do an episode on what it's like working in the sleep field. Maybe that'd be really boring for people. don't know, but it is like, it's just, it's swings and roundabouts. It's full, especially with sleep because we're always working with parents who are really tired and, yeah, they can be some wild days. Some very wild days. yeah.
Dr Laura (06:50)
Mmm.
yeah. Yeah, they can. Yeah. So that's right. We're very vulnerable, very tired clients. And also in an area that is polarizing, which we've spoken about before. So yeah.
Dr Fallon (07:07)
Hmm. And we're very vulnerable, very tired business owners as well. We're their own kids and yeah. It's a lot.
Dr Laura (07:13)
Yeah, and mums. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, it's lot. anyway, that's why we absolutely love those beautiful emails we receive from our members.
Dr Fallon (07:28)
Yes. we got some beautiful ones this week. Maybe we should be reading more of those out. I didn't even think of it. And I need to send some thank you emails in reply because yeah, they keep us going. my gosh. They're so good. Well, Laura, you mentioned to me before that you had a bad night of sleep last night and you're talking about how it's left you feeling really seedy today. Tell me about that.
Dr Laura (07:40)
Mmm. Yeah.
Yes! Yeah! it's my own fault. I overslept on Sundays when I was on holiday, and as I often...
Dr Fallon (08:02)
I think our listeners are currently throwing imaginary daggers at you right now. They're not familiar with oversleeping.
Dr Laura (08:05)
I think they probably are. No. So I had just two nights where I slept way more than I normally would. And as I often describe when I'm working with families is that our bodies are like a seesaw trying to make sure that we always get the right amount of sleep. And so some days if we don't have much sleep, we can build up.
a little bit of a debt or we just get more more tired. So then we can over correct and do a big long sleep. But then what can happen is on subsequent days, the sleep falls over. So that happened to me. had a couple of days where I was like, that's great. And I didn't get up at my regular time in the morning. I was like, chuck all my own advice out the window.
And then was like, yeah, I really should have listened to my own advice. That set wake up time is so important. So last night I was up for two or three hours in the night, unable to go back to sleep. And then this morning before we started recording, Fallon, and we were just talking about what tomorrow is going to mean for you, I just found myself welling up and crying. And I wouldn't normally do that. Of course I do care for you, but I wouldn't normally.
Dr Fallon (09:00)
Yeah.
Ha ha ha!
haha
Dr Laura (09:21)
just gets so teary. But I said to you as I was mopping the tears from my eyes, it's because I didn't sleep well last night. And then, you know, that really feeds into the question that we're going to answer this week, because, you know, that's how I felt after one terrible night. And the my emotions are much more heightened, everything feels much worse.
Dr Fallon (09:23)
You
Yeah.
It does.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (09:49)
and my ability to regulate my emotions has fallen over today. And that's just on the back of one night. and of course I do, we did reflect as well that I, both of us have had children and we've lived that relentless poor sleep when they were really little as well. But...
Dr Fallon (09:56)
Yes.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (10:11)
it does end and then when you have that experience of a bad night again on the back of previously good night sleep it's really really hard.
Dr Fallon (10:20)
Yes. And you wonder how you ever got through weeks and months, excuse me, of interrupted sleep. Like I'm, I just cannot cope if my sleep is interrupted. I'm an absolute mess. I remember when, I kind of remember which kid this was now. They all just blend into one kind of mega baby at this point. One of them, one of them had had a rough time with sleep. was probably my youngest who was the preemie because the, the interrupted nights go on extra long.
Dr Laura (10:24)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yes, yeah they do!
Dr Fallon (10:49)
when you've got a preemie. And I remember just like feeling like utterly just wrecked, totally exhausted. And then for whatever reason, I just had one really good night where I slept really well and I woke up and I was like, I can see in all the colors, the birds are singing. Like it felt incredible. And I often say to parents, you are only one night of good sleep away from feeling completely amazing again. That's really all it is.
Dr Laura (10:51)
Mm.
You
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (11:19)
You won't have this sleep debt where you've got to spend months kind of, you know, catching up on lost sleep. One good night, a couple of good nights, you know, you're going to be feeling golden. So I think keep that in mind. It's just your only one good night away from feeling so much better.
Dr Laura (11:29)
Yes.
Yeah, and keep in mind that when you are sleep deprived, your mind focuses more on the negative things around you and to the exclusion of noticing and remembering the positive things that are happening. And, you know, when, you know, that old adage, go and sleep on it, it's because if you're really tired and if you're sleep deprived, it's very hard to see the full picture.
Dr Fallon (11:45)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (12:05)
And actually we know from scientific studies that memory, you're more likely to remember the negative things and the positive things when you are sleep deprived. And that can be even after only a few days of sleep, less sleep than you need. when you do have that really good night's sleep after being sleep deprived and you have that feeling, the birds are singing, everything feels a bit brighter, it's because your mind is actually able to notice
Dr Fallon (12:05)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (12:34)
the positive things which had been dampened down by that fatigue beforehand. And it's like that damp tea towel that was thrown over all the positive things is lifted and then everything feels a bit brighter. So also have that in your mind. If you, most of our listeners are in the trenches, if you are feeling like this is awful. Yeah, it is awful, but it's,
Dr Fallon (12:36)
Mmm.
Yes.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (13:01)
compounded by the fact that the sleep deprivation stops you from seeing all of the good things as well.
Dr Fallon (13:07)
Yes. I think that's such a hopeful message for listeners as well. it really can, things can turn around really quickly. so often when we're in the throes of sleep deprivation, it just feels like it will never end and that you've somehow fallen into a pit that you're going to stay in. And I know a lot of parents would just say, what have we done? Like, what have we done having this baby? Like we had this really nice life where we could do whatever the heck we wanted and sleep all the time. And now it's like,
Dr Laura (13:14)
Hmm.
Mm, yes.
Dr Fallon (13:35)
You know, we love our babies, but it's totally reasonable to think what, why do we do this? This is crazy. but yeah, it really does. It does get better. but look, I think let's dive into the question that we got sent in from Rhiannon and I read this email from Rhiannon and I just, I felt it in my heart. And I thought this would be a great one to really talk about in more detail on the podcast for those parents that are just suffering really extreme fatigue.
Dr Laura (13:41)
Yes.
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (14:05)
so I'll read it out and then we'll, we'll start to do a bit of a deep dive. So Rhiannon says, I have a 13 month old who has never slept well. I attempted your four to 12 month program and completed a coaching call where I received really helpful advice to investigate medical issues that were preventing my son from sleeping, which had turned out that he had. In the meantime, I've been doing anything I can to get any sleep to survive.
Dr Laura (14:27)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (14:33)
including very poor sleep whilst co-sleeping. I have a sensitive boy who loves to be held, so co-sleeping actually looks more like me holding him all night. She says, I've dealt with postpartum anxiety and depression as a result of sleep deprivation, and my husband has recently started medication for depression as well. She says, I made a plan, a schedule, and I was convinced I was ready to start.
Dr Laura (14:46)
Wow.
Dr Fallon (15:02)
But every night I give in out of pure exhaustion. My son has a very convincing, very loud protesting cry and he ends up back in bed with me. The logical part of me knows my inconsistency is making him want to see, is this the moment where I can hop into bed with mum? But in the moment, I can't seem to push past it. Rhiannon says, I'm due to return to paid work soon and we have been transitioning to daycare for the
Dr Laura (15:07)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (15:32)
past two months, which has been very difficult for him. Any help is extremely appreciated. Rhiannon says, my son seems to fit into the small percentage of high needs babies. And I also wondered if you have heard this term or found any particular advice that fits this temperament.
Dr Laura (15:49)
gosh, Rhiannon, my heart goes out to you. It sounds very, very hard. And you know, your baby is now a toddler. And so you have months and months and months of poor sleep under your belt, which is going to make it very hard to push through because...
We know that a baby who's 13 months old who has had the experience of co-sleeping, that hasn't been a choice that you've made. It's not proactive co-sleeping. It's something that you have done to survive, as you put it. Your 13 month old isn't going to want to change that, but you need to change it for your sleep health and your mental wellbeing.
then what we have is a, that, a big clash because we have, toddler who doesn't want to change things to change. Cause I'm sure he's quite happy with that. It's what the only thing he's really known. And then we've got you who you're important to and your sleep is important to and your suffering, your mental health is suffering, your sleep, health is suffering and you're soon going to be returning to work. So we're going to be adding on an extra bit of pressure.
not just a bit, an extra wallop of pressure for you, Rhiannon. And to make changes is going to be hard, but it's going to be really, really necessary because not only do you need to be having better sleep health to improve your mental health and to help you function well in your return to work, but your 13 month old who is sleeping very poorly from your description,
Dr Fallon (17:03)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (17:29)
he also needs to have better sleep health. so it's simply, you're at a critical point now where for everybody's wellbeing, it's really important to make changes for his sleep. No matter how much he will not want that to happen. It's really important, I think for your whole family, Rhiannon.
Dr Fallon (17:33)
Yes
Hmm.
Yes. And it's these situations where I often will talk to families about how sometimes as parents for the sake of our child or our own wellbeing, we have to do really hard things. Like if your child has, you know, maybe some problems with their physical development, they might need to go through physiotherapy every week that is painful and really hard for them. And they cry the whole hour session because it's really difficult.
Dr Laura (18:14)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (18:20)
hard work for their little bodies to go through, but we do it because we need them. We want them to develop well. You know, if they've got problems with walking or feeding or something like that, we have to put that hard work in. And sometimes they really hate it, but it's just a really necessary thing. Or a lot of parents will also use the example of, I don't want to give them their vaccinations because it's so horrible when they cry and I know it's going to hurt them. But I just have to grip my teeth and bear it because their wellbeing is paramount.
Dr Laura (18:27)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (18:50)
and these situations are just really hard. You know, if Rhiannon emailed us and said, you know, when we co-sleep, we all sleep really, really well. but you know, not sure if we should still do it. I'd be thinking, well, wait until your mental health is on an even keel and you're feeling really good. and then work on moving him out of bed. the fact that even when co-sleeping sleeps really interrupted, it's just a rotten combination. and it is so tough.
Dr Laura (19:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (19:20)
So there are practical things though we can think about with this. I think one of the first things, this wasn't where I was going to start this answer, but I think we will anyway, is you talk about a high needs baby. So this term's kind of gotten popular. A high needs baby is what we sort of use to describe a baby that has maybe a really challenging temperament where they're really reactive to change. So really big emotional reactions to every little change.
they often do cry a lot as babies and just a little bit more challenging, well, a lot more challenging to parent. With these babies, I think it is so important to be thinking about what they're likely to respond well to. So I would love to say this is the one way to do this change for this particular type of temperament. But I think it's well worth thinking, is your baby one who will respond better to a really gradual
Dr Laura (19:55)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (20:19)
change where we slowly work towards cot settling over several weeks and with lots of support built in around it. Or is every little change going to cause the same huge reaction in which case we're better off making one clear change. We go straight to cot settling, you know, and we still obviously give some supports along the way, but we just make that one big adjustment for this child. I'd definitely be having a bit of a think over what you think is the better option.
Dr Laura (20:32)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (20:49)
look, I tend to lean towards making one big, swift change, just because I think often really gradual changes take a toll on mental health. And for this family, it sounds like that's already a challenge.
Dr Laura (20:53)
Mmm.
Yeah.
And I think also Valen, Rhiannon says she's returning to work in a week. So there is that time pressure. So that would also make me think just in this instance, that it's probably better to do a quicker approach. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (21:07)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah. And there's ways to build in supports around that too. So look, I would be thinking, Rhiannon, you sound like a really good candidate for maybe going to an early parenting center. Some of them have a cutoff of 12 months. Others are a little bit longer, so you might need to have a bit of a search. And I don't know where Rhiannon's based. So in Victoria, we are spoiled for choice. have early parenting centers all over the place. Other states might only have one, and it could be hundreds of kilometers away from where you are.
Dr Laura (21:41)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (21:52)
But if you do have some nearby, it's worth investigating because then you've got some hands-on practical support as your child gets used to falling asleep in their cot. That can be really invaluable. You could have a chat with your GP about arranging a referral or some of them you can just self-refer to as well. But what I think is really important, and not just to Rhiannon's case, but to any case like this, I would say Rhiannon, if you have been...
Dr Laura (22:07)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (22:20)
you know, having to have a child sleep on top of you for months and months on end with hideously interrupted sleep. When you go to work on cot settling, we need you to be as far out of the picture as we can get you. I would say it's time for your, mentioned you've got a husband. it's time for him to take the lead role and do the majority of these changes. you've certainly done your hard yards more than done them. and if he's able to do it.
Dr Laura (22:34)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (22:49)
it not only is your child likely to respond a lot better, once they realize that you're not, not available. If your child can't see you there in your bed as well, that makes a big difference. and I would say, yeah, more likely to have success and a quicker turnaround. If dad takes on the majority of the settling might just be for, you know, three or four nights and then you can start to share it again. I would be giving that some very serious thought, because it makes these changes much more doable.
Dr Laura (22:59)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (23:19)
if you don't have a partner, I think definitely thinking about extended family. If you've got a parent who is like dying to come in and give some hands on support, give them a job. They can come around and do bedtime for you. or it could be friends, or if you've got the resources, it might be that you hire a nanny to come around for a few nights to do some of this work for you. I think it's just so important that this isn't just.
Dr Laura (23:39)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (23:45)
Just so many families that we see and this might not be the case for Rhiannon, but so many families we see in clinic, the burden of the sleep problems has fallen 99 % on the shoulders of the female, of the mother. And it's just so irritating just seeing this time and time again. This is not a, it's not a women's problem. Like it shouldn't be all the mums that are struggling with this.
Dr Laura (23:57)
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
Dr Fallon (24:11)
because we know that when fathers in particular take an active role in settling, there are far fewer sleep problems in babies and toddlers. So sharing that load is really, really important. Yeah, I think do keep that in mind. If you've been really struggling, it's time for the partner to come and step in and do a little more as you make these big changes.
Dr Laura (24:24)
Mmm.
Yeah. And you know, if your partner is at paid, doing paid work, then thinking about if you do have a high needs baby, like Rihanna is describing her toddler to be, then it may be worthwhile thinking about your partner taking a couple of days off work so that you know that you're going to be able to start the
new settling approach and see it through to the end. And if your partner is thinking, I've got to go into work tomorrow, I've got a really important meeting or, you know, something else, is it just blocking his or her ability to see it through then, yeah, being proactive beforehand and going, I'm going to take Monday and Tuesday off work. It's going to take that as annual leave.
Dr Fallon (25:27)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (25:28)
Yeah, fine. It means that if you do want to have a holiday later in the year, it might be shorter, but come on, the whole family is going to function much better. It's yeah, yeah, absolutely. And, you know, if you do, we often would suggest if you're going with one of the faster approaches, you might start on the Friday night. So then you could do Friday night, Saturday night, and by Sunday night, things are getting a bit easier. But with a child who has a very determined, strong personality,
Dr Fallon (25:34)
Yeah, this is a very worthy use of annual leave, isn't it?
Dr Laura (25:56)
I'd be thinking about factoring in an extra couple of days on top of that so that you can really make sure that you can see it through to the end. look, no, there would be, Fallon, correct me if I'm wrong, I would be very surprised if there are any jobs that are more demanding than a job where you have had to have a baby sleep on you all night for 13 months in a row. I mean.
Dr Fallon (26:01)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Yeah, I don't believe there'd be a job harder than that. That's working 24 seven. That's not having a single moment to yourself for months. mean, I no way would I cope with that. I absolutely would have lost the plot. I know, I know that it goes so far beyond what I personally could ever manage. It's so tough. The other thing I often suggest to families,
Dr Laura (26:26)
That's no. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (26:53)
And some just look at me like I'm crazy and others are like, yes, that's genius. I want Rhiannon to go away for the weekend. Go and like, if you've got the resources, book a bed and breakfast down the road, go stay with your parents, go to stay at a girlfriend's house. just have a bit of space. Cause so often for a toddler when mum's not home, they kind of understand mum's not here. Once they know you're not there, often they're like, right. dad, how are we going to sleep?
Dr Laura (27:18)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (27:23)
You know, and it's just, completely changes the landscape. And so often these kids calm down and actually do really well with cop settling and being resettled in the cop, because they know that mum just isn't there and isn't available. So if you think that's helpful, you have our permission. We can write you a letter. No, not really. But, you know, go and do it. Cause so many families I work with say, yeah, I went and like stayed at a hotel in the city for two nights. I caught up on sleep. So then.
Dr Laura (27:23)
Yeah.
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (27:51)
You know, so often these mums are having that those golden moments of like waking up after eight hours of sleep, seeing everything in every color and hearing all the birds in the trees. And then that means that even if settling is not going great at home and you go back home and there's still, you know, some work to do, which there might be, you're then able to go into that work feeling from a place of restoration where you've had some good sleep, you're feeling calm, you've got that mental clarity. It is
Dr Laura (27:59)
Yes!
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (28:19)
game changing, you know, to just get a night or two of good sleep in, you'll have the resilience to do it.
Dr Laura (28:20)
Yeah, it is.
It is. Yeah. And it will, think also be helpful for you to then in the middle of the night, persist with a settling approach. So when you're better rested, you're going to be more able to engage your prefrontal cortex to evaluate those emotions that you're feeling and go, yeah, okay, actually.
Dr Fallon (28:36)
Hmm.
You
Hmm.
Dr Laura (28:49)
in this instance, my son does it. was Rihanna describe her child's crying as something about how it's very, very, it's very convincing. and so it sounds very distressed and in the middle of the night on the back of months of sleep deprivation, it will be very hard for you to tell yourself. He's just got a big feeling and that I'm going to help him through. It's when you can't.
Dr Fallon (28:58)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (29:15)
evaluate the emotion that you are hearing and that you're feeling yourself. It's very hard to then not respond from your, like your lizard brain where you just go quick, scoop them up, bring them into bed, make it stop. When you're a little bit more rested and there's a bit more clarity, you can go, do you know what? He's 13 months old. He's allowed to have really big feelings about not co-sleeping anymore.
Dr Fallon (29:30)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (29:44)
But I am also allowed to teach him that the place where he sleeps is in his bed because that's what he needs in order to have a well-functioning mum and having a well-functioning mum during the day, really, really important. So, yeah.
Dr Fallon (29:44)
Yeah.
Yes, and so important for him as well. He sleeps so interrupted at the moment and that has flow on effects for the daytime, for settling into childcare, for making new friends, for learning how to share, for learning language, everything, every part of his development is impacted if his sleep is broken. So you've got every reason to work on this Rhiannon.
Dr Laura (30:14)
Yeah.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (30:22)
I wish, I wish we could hold your hand. These are the times where I think one day we need to have like a team of night nurses that goes out and like actually does this with the families and gives them a hug. And he says, you can do this, you know, be awesome.
Dr Laura (30:25)
Yeah.
Yes.
Yes, they can be like Norton nannies, know, like in the UK where they have that uniform, we can have a Sombelle uniform and they go out at night into the homes.
Dr Fallon (30:41)
Yeah.
Yes! I love it. Alright so send your CV.
Dr Laura (30:51)
That's what you'd be interested in doing. So from a practical point of view, we've spoken about Rian thinking about if there's any early parenting centers where you could go to do a residential stay close to you. If that's not an option for you, thinking about any friends or family that could come around and help. Or actually before that, would be whether your partner can do the settling and then friends and family if that's not an option.
Dr Fallon (30:54)
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr Laura (31:20)
Also, thinking about if you can go away for a night or two so that you can get a bit of rest and that will help regain your perspective. That's not as a throwing shade, but just as we've spoken about the effects of sleep deprivation do mean it does impact your perception of the world. I think another thing that we haven't touched on, Fallon, which is the importance of having mental health support when you are
Dr Fallon (31:49)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (31:50)
experiencing post-natal depression and anxiety. because Rhiannon, you've already identified that that's something that you are experiencing and your husband is, I'm hoping that you're already then linked in with a GP and potentially already have a psychologist. If you don't have a psychologist, think about making an appointment with your GP to get a mental health plan done.
And then I think at the moment it's down to 10 sessions that you can have as a, you know, receive some Medicare rebate from that. And in the heat of the moment, always remember that you can call Panda. The Panda helpline is awesome. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (32:17)
Hmm.
Yes, I love Panda.
They really specialize in postnatal depression and anxiety and I think perinatal as well. So if you're expecting and you're struggling with symptoms, you can call them too. Yeah, they are just lovely people on the end of the phone, ready to have a chat with you. It doesn't matter if you have no idea what you're going to say, just dial the number and they'll help you through it. They are brilliant and I'll put a link in the show notes for their services. Yeah, highly recommend reaching out to those. But yeah, look, good luck, Rhianna.
Dr Laura (32:44)
Mm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (33:05)
and let us know how you go. And I think that was a really, really good discussion that we just had. And I think we should flag this episode for parents in Sombal, the ones we see in clinic too, who just say, I'm so exhausted. How do I get started? Hopefully this has given a good summary and some good sort of thinking points around how you might manage to make these big changes. Hmm.
Dr Laura (33:22)
Yeah.
Hmm yeah. All right, shall we move on to some of the other questions, Valen? Yeah, yeah, I'll go with Steph. So Steph emailed in with three questions and in contrast to Rhiannon who has a toddler, Steph has a seven week old, so a really little baby. Congratulations, Steph.
Dr Fallon (33:36)
Yeah, yep, go for it. Do want to go with Steph?
Aww. Yeah.
Dr Laura (33:54)
Steph says over the past two weeks, she's been practicing settling him in the bassinet. And she describes a really great daily rhythm. So well done, Steph. And Steph's questions, I will take them one at a time, think, Falon. Number one, Steph writes, he seems to start crying as soon as he knows it's time for bed. When we turn the white noise on, swaddle him and make the room dark.
Could he have developed a negative response to the sleep associations we're trying to implement? Is there anything we can do about this?
Dr Fallon (34:30)
Mm, this is really, really common. it's nothing to worry about. A lot of babies, I guess they just sort of a feeling like, well, no, I want to keep doing stuff. I don't want to go to sleep. but if you're seeing all the tired signs, you know, they're ready for it. Or if they've gotten a little too tired and they're starting to get grisly and crying, you know, it might be more just to do with the, the weird feelings that are coming through their body, the feelings of fatigue and they're feeling upset by that. it's.
Dr Laura (34:44)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (34:59)
Not like I don't think it's anything to worry about. I think there's just so many babies where as soon as they get wind of it being bedtime, they get really grisly and whiny and cry quite a lot. And often this just resolves with time as they get used to that process. If you're confident that he's ready for sleep, it's fine to persist with settling. think some parents make the mistake of going, they're really upset. I'll hold them a bit longer. And then the whole sort of bedtime wind down process gets interrupted by that. Would you add anything to that, Laura?
Dr Laura (35:26)
Just that he's only seven weeks old, so I wouldn't say that he's developed a negative response to those sleep associations. Yeah, it's very, very little. And it may be that he's learning, look, only seven weeks old, but learning that dark room does mean time for bed. But yeah, nothing to worry about.
Dr Fallon (35:34)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (35:54)
Okay so Steph's second question is, fights cot settling every time we attempt it, thrashing his arms and legs around and crying. As his hands go near his face he attempts to suck on them and this seems to make him more distressed. Steph adds, we've given up on a swaddle as he breaks out of it and it makes him wake more between sleep cycles so he's now in a sleep suit. So that's good well done Steph you are
paying attention to what your baby is telling you, you're making adjustments to the baby in front of you. So that's a really good thing that you are noticing that. So I hope that is helping build your confidence that you're seeing how your baby's responding and you're acting upon it. So that's great. Steph adds, to help him settle, I've started to hold his arms down whilst also patting and shushing, which seems to help. However, he also seems to not stop
Dr Fallon (36:32)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (36:52)
crying until I also jiggle the bassinet a little. This means I'm now doing four things to try to calm him down. Five, if you count the white noise. I wonder what your thoughts are on this and how or when I should reduce the amount of support I'm giving him. It takes anywhere from 10 to 60 minutes to settle him.
Dr Fallon (37:14)
Hmm, okay. So if there's a lot of settles that are taking more than 20 minutes, I'd be thinking the timing might be a little bit off. He might be being able to stay awake a little longer as he's getting older. So keep that in the back of your mind there, Steph. I think what you're doing is lovely. He's seven weeks old. So by providing that little bit of jiggling, if that's what he needs, you're supporting him to get used to that feeling of falling asleep on his back.
Dr Laura (37:22)
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (37:40)
in Eastcott or Bassinet, which is great to be adding in that support. It is something you can just gradually phase out. You know, we could probably talk more about that in a moment. The one thing that really flagged for me was when Steph says his hands go up to his face and he tries to suck on them, but he gets more distressed. I would be giving him lots of opportunity.
to suck on his hands without you holding them down out the way. So little babies, one of the ways they try to self-soothe is to bring their hands up and suck on their hands in their mouth. But often they're crying and whinging when they're doing it, probably because they're like, kind of, want to latch onto these things. I can't quite figure out how. Their hands moving a bit sporadically at that age. Their hands often aren't cooperating with what they'd like them to do. But with practice, he'll get better and better.
Dr Laura (38:24)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (38:34)
at using his hands, sucking on his fingers briefly and then falling asleep. Which I would say is a skill we want him to develop because his hands are always there. You can always find them, something like a dummy, much harder for a little baby to find, in fact impossible at seven weeks of age. So I would say, would keep all those things that you're doing going, but try to, even if it's just like...
Dr Laura (38:41)
Mm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (38:56)
for one minute or two minutes you don't hold his hands and you see what he does see if he can figure out a way to use his hands to calm down just let him keep practicing that because there will likely come a point where you'll put him down hands will come up and he'll be asleep and that's what we would love to get him to then it's a lot easier to phase out jiggling the cot and any padding or whatever that you might be doing have i missed anything there laura
Dr Laura (39:06)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No, don't think so. Yeah, and it seems that he, yeah, he likes the jiggling. And as he's only seven weeks old, just yeah, I wouldn't be worrying about there being too many things that you're doing. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (39:36)
Because it's all practice at this age too. Like we just want him to know that being in his cot is a nice place to be, that there is lots of support there. The more practice he has of falling asleep there, even if it is with hands-on support, the more likely it is that when he hits that four or five month mark and starts to have really strong preferences for how he falls asleep, he's more likely to have a strong preference for falling asleep in his cot than, you know, in your arms, because that's going to be quite unfamiliar to him at that point.
Dr Laura (40:00)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (40:05)
And that means way less night waking. So you're much more likely to get through that phase a bit more easily. So you're doing the exact right thing, Steph. It's awesome.
Dr Laura (40:10)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you don't have to be doing this every time he has a nap. So, or has a sleep. he's only seven weeks old, won't have be able to form really strong preferences just yet. And so for such a little baby, if you're thinking, well, maybe I'll just try and settle him in the cot two or three times in a day.
you know, or, you know, might be at bedtime and maybe a couple of the first naps. And the other ones are just rocking to sleep and holding sleep or do naps on the go. That's absolutely fine. And all of those times that you are introducing him to the cot, it's just all practice for him. And the thrashing should slow down as he gets a bit older as well. And he learns to find his little hand and put it in his mouth.
Dr Fallon (40:40)
Mmm.
Mm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (41:08)
So yeah, you're doing a great job. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (41:09)
Yes.
I've had a few parents worry that they'll say something like, the last nap of the day is really hard. So I've been holding them to sleep. This is for little babies. am I completely just stuffing this up? Like they're really beating themselves up over it. Like I'm, I'm trying really hard, but this is one settle and I hold them and it's, you know, I'm obviously doing a terrible job. And I'm just like, no way. Most of the time your baby settles in their cot. That's like amazing. So if there is a tricky settle, don't worry when they're really little, especially it.
Dr Laura (41:36)
Yes!
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (41:41)
matter to just yeah hold them to sleep but yeah you're doing a great job.
Dr Laura (41:44)
And Stes' final question is, I feed him twice overnight, usually around midnight and then again at 3.30 ish. He only feeds for a short time and then nods off to sleep on the boob, after which I'll pop him down and he stays asleep. Sometimes I get him into the bassinet drowsy but awake, but it's rare. Is feeding him to sleep in the nighttime going to confuse him when I'm trying to cut settle in the day and first evening settle? What should I be doing differently?
Dr Fallon (42:11)
it's a brilliant question because this is one that's really age dependent. So if Steph's baby was like eight months old, 10 months old, I'd be saying, yeah, that's really confusing that they're sometimes falling asleep, feeding other times it's in the cot and it could cause some problems for some babies. But in a really little baby in a seven week old, it's perfectly fine. It's not, you know, there are some parents who just really want every settle in the cot.
Dr Laura (42:21)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (42:37)
So that's fine too. Like if you really want to put your baby back down and awake in the cot and have them completely fall asleep there every time, totally go for it. That's fine. but I would say at this age, yeah, it's not going to create a bad habit.
It's a great way to just get a little baby back to sleep really quickly. You know, if you're around, if they're around four or five months per age and they're of age rather, and they're waking up all the time because they fell asleep feeding and then they come up into light sleep and you're not there. And then that's when I would start to really work on that. But at the moment, yeah, it's perfectly fine. I love that Steph is thinking about all of these things though, because it sounds like she's really keen to get.
Dr Laura (43:02)
Mm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (43:15)
really solid foundations in place for good sleep and you're doing it all right Steph, it's great. Yeah well done. Shall I read out Hannah's question? All right so Hannah wrote in about her five and a half month old who recently moved out of her SNU and into a compact cot. She averages 13 hours of sleep per 24 hours and Hannah says my
Dr Laura (43:18)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Yeah, let's do that.
Dr Fallon (43:42)
previous unicorn sleeper, I love that term, who would sleep for nine or 10 hours at night is now waking every 40 minutes to an hour. ouch, that's tough. Hannah says she resettles quickly after the dummy is placed back in her mouth and with some head stroking. She says we've been following the quick fade approach for day naps.
Dr Laura (43:44)
Yeah.
yeah.
Dr Fallon (44:06)
She isn't hungry as she previously slept through the night. And when I've given her a bottle at night, she'll still only sleep for about an hour before she wakes up. So Hannah has three questions, which I think we could probably go through one by one. The first is, will continuing to reinsert the dummy to settle her at night cause an issue down the track with a reliance on it to settle? She's in the habit of taking it out and attempting to put it back in.
I think it could already be there. What do you think, Laura?
Dr Laura (44:36)
Yeah, I think it's, I think it's already Yeah. Yeah. So the from from what you're saying there, Hannah, I think that your baby already has got a an association with falling to sleep with the dummy. And therefore, yeah, where is it because then it's falling out. And yeah, so you're having to reinsert it like a five and a half months. She's probably
Dr Fallon (44:40)
Yeah.
Hmm. Waking up and going, where is it? Hmm.
Dr Laura (45:03)
another couple of months away from being able to replace the dummy herself. And if you want to continue using the dummy, then there's a good likelihood that until she can replace it herself, she's going to, you're going to be having to reinsert it multiple times overnight. So I would be giving some thought as to whether you do want to continue with it or not.
Dr Fallon (45:23)
Hmm.
Yes, especially given this next question. So Hannah says, with the quick fade approach, I often find I'm fighting her arms to stop her from pulling the dummy out. Once she's asleep, she'll either spit it out or I remove it. Is fighting her arms prolonging her falling asleep and should I leave them alone and focus on padding and humming?
Dr Laura (45:33)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, so I would be, yeah, I'd be thinking about maybe getting rid of the dummy at this point, just because she's by you holding. I often find I'm fighting her arms. Yeah. What's happening, I think, is that your baby is working out what to do with her little arms as she's falling asleep.
Dr Fallon (45:58)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (46:17)
And when you're trying to stop her from moving her arms around, so she doesn't knock the dummy out, she's not then having the opportunity to learn what to do with those arms because you're in there trying to stop her from moving them. So she doesn't knock the dummy out. And so there's two things, she's needing the dummy to fall asleep, but she's also learning what to do with her hands as she falls asleep. And that's also one of the things that we do learn as
Dr Fallon (46:31)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (46:46)
we get older is how to hold our bodies in order to fall asleep. So she's learning that she needs a dummy to fall asleep and she's trying to learn what to do with her hands. And the two things are just at odds. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (46:51)
Mmm.
Yes, yeah. And so often at this age, they've got the dummy in, but their instinct is still to bring their hands to their mouth. And so they bring their hands up, but then of course they knock the dummy out. So they're just very uncoordinated at five and a half months old. I would say do one of two things. Either just ditch the dummy altogether. You'll have a few tricky settles, stick to that quick fade approach. You know, after a few days, she should have forgotten all about it. Or if you'd rather keep
Dr Laura (47:15)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (47:28)
the dummy, using that quick fade approach, it could be that you put the dummy in, don't hold her arms down, but doing, you know, you're padding and you're humming and you only put the dummy back in for her maybe every two minutes or every three minutes. Sometimes, not often, but sometimes at this age, excuse me, they learned that if I knock my dummy out, it sucks. Cause I'm like, then I don't have my dummy and I kind of wanted it and yeah.
Dr Laura (47:55)
No pun intended.
Dr Fallon (47:58)
Not intended at all. Not that with it today to yeah, think of such good jokes. but yeah, by only putting the dummy back in every few minutes, sometimes they go, okay. It's not very nice to lose the dummy. I've got to wait for it to come back again. And then they start to try a little harder to keep it in. look, you could try it. You could try it. It's probably just going to be really tough though. I'm leaning towards maybe in this case, getting rid of it is a better option.
Dr Laura (48:03)
Hahaha!
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (48:28)
But have a bit of a think Hannah, you know your baby best, you'll know which which road's the better one to go down.
Dr Laura (48:30)
Mm.
Yeah, I like that though Fallon, your suggestion because you're then what we're doing is giving Hannah will be giving her baby the opportunity to learn what to do with her arms as well. So if you're just patting her, she's flailing her arms around, she does knock the dummy out then what we might start to find at Hannah is that your baby actually quite likes then putting her hands in her mouth and she prefers that over the dummy and then she's calming as you're patting her. Yes.
Dr Fallon (48:46)
Mm. Yeah.
Mm. That's so often the case, isn't it? Yeah, they ditch the dummy and then suddenly like, my God, my fingers are awesome. I want these and only these from now on. Yeah, it is often the case.
Dr Laura (49:04)
Yeah.
Yeah.
So Hannah has a last question where she says her baby is not unhappy when she wakes at night just flinging her legs around and talking. Should I revert to a sleep suit with arms in to transition her to the compact cot at night though she is close to rolling? No.
Dr Fallon (49:29)
No, no, stay away from keeping those arms in. I think she's going to want to bring her hands up to her mouth. Anyway, if she's happy and talking and having a good old play in the cot in the middle of the night, plus now I think about it, she's waking every 40 minutes to an hour. Sounds like she's not getting a big long stretch of sleep. At any point, I would revisit the daily schedule.
Dr Laura (49:33)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (49:54)
Because at this age, sleep needs drop really quickly. Could be over the last couple of weeks, she shed, you know, 30 minutes, an hour from her sleep needs and the sleep pressure is actually getting a little low overnight. So I'd revisit that one, Hannah. Yeah.
Dr Laura (50:00)
Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah, whenever I hear a baby's lying in their cot having a chat in the middle of the night, think, sleep pressure. Yeah, so at five and a half months, it may be that she's if she's on four naps, needs to come down to three.
Dr Fallon (50:16)
Yeah, yeah, that's it.
Dr Laura (50:25)
and it may actually just not be long, might just be another couple of weeks before she's ready to transition to two naps. Some babies do at this age transition to two naps, so given that she's only got a 13 hour sleep need, it might be that she's ready for two naps and perhaps a little power nap to get you through into a bedtime. But yeah, definitely have a revisit Hannah, because I'd say that sleep pressure is playing a role, a big role in what's
Dr Fallon (50:32)
Hmm.
Yeah. But again, Hannah is just doing such a great job of thinking through all the factors and yeah, love your work, Hannah. You're doing a great job of really thinking about what you need to do next. And I think you're on the right path. So great job.
Dr Laura (51:00)
Mmm.
And our last question is from Karen. Karen says, recently joined your sleep program for toddlers as I want to start moving away from bed sharing with my 16 month old. He's currently cuddled to sleep for naps and bedtime, sleeps in his cot for naps and at the start of the night and then we bed share when he wakes up overnight. I plan to start by working on settling him to sleep in his cot. I would like to ask how consistent would I have to be? Can I start with cot settling just at the start of bedtime?
and continue to cuddle for naps and overnight wakes and even continue with bed sharing overnight, at least until we get a hold of cot settling at the start of the night. And Karen adds, it feels overwhelming to do everything at once. And are there any issues if you settle to sleep differently at daycare versus at home and between myself and different carers at home?
Should I expect to see improvements in his overnight wakes when he learns to fall asleep with less support at the start of the night? there's a few questions bundled up in that Fallon.
Dr Fallon (52:05)
Mmm.
Yeah, and it is a really good question and I think a pretty common one. So it could go two ways and I hate to provide two options because I don't want to further confuse parents but I think it's important to think about the sort of different pathways where this could go. So on the one hand, for some children, if they fall asleep in their cot at bedtime, then they wake up overnight and go, you know what, I fell asleep here, I'm pretty tired, I'll just go back to sleep.
Dr Laura (52:34)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (52:34)
And so working on cot settling at bedtime, sometimes the nights eventually follow, takes time, but eventually they start to sleep in their cot all night. So you could take that tack and see how you go, because I understand doing everything at once can feel really overwhelming. But we kind of have to balance that by considering the child's experience of it. 16 month olds.
Dr Laura (52:46)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (53:02)
know what they want and they're pretty smart and so often they'll just go well I don't care if I settled here in my cot I know that mom or dad or whoever is available so I'm gonna wake up and I'm gonna scream my lungs out until I get to go into their bed and it just doesn't really make a difference it's just confusing to them they don't really understand that they're expected to always fall asleep there so again it kind of comes down to temperament
Dr Laura (53:05)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (53:27)
and it could be that you go okay for one week we'll settle them in the cot at bedtime we'll see how it's going if everything's going really well and nights improve wonderful but if there's any difficulties if there's any night waking and their beds sharing halfway through the night i would just cut to the chase i would just go right that's it it's cot settling all the way from here we know he can do it because he's been doing it at bedtime we'll just keep resettling in the cot overnight
Dr Laura (53:33)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (53:54)
And then you would see much faster and more consistent progress because after a week he's gonna know there is nowhere else I fall asleep. So I hope that helps Karen. In terms of like being settled differently at daycare versus at home.
Dr Laura (54:02)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (54:11)
At daycare, typically they fall asleep on their own without a lot of hands-on support. So it's great because they're getting some practice at self-settling. And if he self-settles at daycare, then you can be really confident that he knows what to do. At home, he just doesn't want to do it. So, you know, that can often give parents a bit of confidence. It's fine if they settle him a bit different to how you do it at home. Kids can learn, you know, different place, different rules. That's fine. But different carers at home.
Dr Laura (54:24)
Yes.
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (54:40)
I would say that can be a problem. if one parent hangs around and pats them all the way to sleep in their cot for every settle and the other one pats them for a few minutes, then gives them a cuddle, pats them again, gives them like just a little bit of variation between parents that toddler will start to scream their head off if it's the parent who only pats them all the way to sleep in their cot because they're going to want that parent who actually picks them up every now and then they're going to have that
Dr Laura (54:40)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (55:07)
preference and then you get these terrible settles or parents saying well they just will not fall asleep for dad they'll only fall asleep for mom or vice versa and that can be really distressing so let's say between parents or caregivers in the home just do one thing and then it there's no confusion it's just one way of falling asleep
Dr Laura (55:16)
Yes.
Yeah.
Yeah, I think that's really good advice. They then won't have that really strong preference because they know that they get cuddles every 10 minutes for both parents. So yeah, obviously, they won't know 10 minutes. But whatever it is, that's exactly the same whether it's mom or dad or mom and mom and dad who do it. It's they're not going to just scream blue murder when it's the wrong parents doing it. And God, that's that's
Dr Fallon (55:39)
Whatever it is. Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (55:56)
really hellish and it can really then actually impact on your relationship as well, because you can then as the parents end up feeling at odds with each other. So it's a really good idea to make sure that you do act as a team, decide what the settling approach is going to be, come up with whatever compromises and modifications you need to do so that you are both able to commit to exactly the same process when you're caught settling.
Dr Fallon (55:57)
Mmm.
Mm.
Dr Laura (56:24)
And then that means that you're much more likely to have a smoother journey with this. Your child won't be as confused and you can be supportive of each other and rather than like hurling abuse at each other, well, you're doing it differently.
Dr Fallon (56:39)
Yeah, yes. And then it's not just all the burden on one parent. Like I see a lot of families where the mum is like, I haven't left the house in years because like I'm the only one who can settle the baby and my husband while he goes out for beers with his mates every Friday and Saturday night. And I'm really starting to hate him. You know, we don't want to end up like that. We just, yeah, both of you do the same thing. One thing I'll throw in here though, is that
Dr Laura (56:46)
Mm.
I
Yes! No.
Dr Fallon (57:08)
Often families will say, sometimes they go to a grandparent's house for care and the grandparents, you know, all these weird and wonderful things to settle in for sleep. Does that matter? Doesn't matter. It's a different place, different roles, unlikely to matter. But if the grandparents come to your house to help, then I would be insisting that they do something similar to what you're doing. So they know when I'm at home, this is just how I fall asleep. Excellent. Gosh, I love these questions this week. They have been absolutely fantastic.
Dr Laura (57:27)
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah, they have.
Dr Fallon (57:38)
God, what amazing parents. I'm just constantly amazed by the parents that we get to work with who are thinking about all these things, who are so dedicated to making sure their child has the best wellbeing that they can have and recognizing that sleep is a really important component of that. You should all be so proud of yourselves. I just absolutely love it. So to end this week's show, I wanted to flag that we're running a really cool, big competition at the moment.
Dr Laura (57:57)
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Dr Fallon (58:08)
We've partnered with Susukoshi and Cherub Baby to do a really big giveaway. It's worth over $950. It takes like 10 seconds to enter. And you end up with like vouchers for their stores and they sell beautiful, beautiful things. Like you may as well just enter because it's pretty cool. If you've recently bought Sombelle and you enter that competition and you win, then you will just win back the purchase price.
Dr Laura (58:24)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (58:37)
of the program that you signed up for most recently. So yeah, even if you're a member and you just think, yeah, hell yeah, I'd like those vouchers, go and enter it. And if you win too, you can also get a coaching call included as well. yeah, I'll pop a link in the show notes actually for that competition to make it super easy to enter. Yeah, so get in on that one. Also just a little note over the next week while...
Dr Laura (58:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (59:03)
I'm away. I might be really slow to reply to emails. gives me so much anxiety when the inbox is full and people are waiting. So please just be super patient. I'll get back to you as soon as I can. And same goes for Laura as well. We're to be totally under the pump over the next week or so. So yeah, thanks so much for just being patient and waiting for responses. If something's really urgent, it's fine to flag it again with us. Just to get our attention. Yeah.
Dr Laura (59:08)
You
Yes.
Yeah, just send another email. Yeah, sometimes if we have a day where we've received 50 emails, there can just be one that unfortunately goes under the radar. And it's not there's no malicious intent by it's just it's only the two of us. No, it's not on purpose. Yeah, so just sending us a quick follow up to say, did you see this? And we'll be like, yeah, sorry. Yeah. And we'll get to it. Totally fine.
Dr Fallon (59:35)
Hmm.
Yeah. We would never ignore you on purpose. It's just us being overwhelmed.
Yes, that's it. And also we've had a few people submit questions to the podcast lately who aren't Sombelle members. So we don't answer those on the podcast. If you would like to have your questions answered, please just join the program because you're going to need more resources than what we can usually provide in a response on the podcast anyway. And the Sombelle program will give that to you. And when you do submit a question, if you're a member,
Dr Laura (1:00:14)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:00:20)
Try to submit it using the email that you signed up with. It makes it really quick and easy for us to be able to go, yep, that person's a member. We've got them in the system. And it just means that there won't be any delays in us being able to answer your question on the podcast. So that's all for this week. I guess tune in next week to find out how my head is feeling. Probably not so great. Fingers crossed all that goes well. But yeah, I hope everybody.
Dr Laura (1:00:31)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yes!
Yes, yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:00:49)
has a really good week and yeah, I look forward to recording another one next week.
Dr Laura (1:00:55)
Yeah, thanks everyone. Bye bye.
