Dr Fallon (00:37)
Parents often tell us that there was one particularly tricky night when their baby or toddler just wouldn't fall back asleep and they finally caved, bringing their child into their bed in the hope of getting more sleep. The problem? Their child realized that bed sharing was an option and decided that this would be the only place they would fall asleep from that point onwards. Some parents enjoy bed sharing, but for most it makes sleep worse.
Night feeding can drastically increase as can parents stress about SIDS and wriggly children might constantly wake their exhausted parents. Today we're going to unpack the two factors most commonly associated with unwanted bed sharing. If your little one doesn't share your bed, then today's episode will be a good lesson in prevention. And if you have a little one sharing your bed and you're keen to move them back to their own sleep space,
Dr Laura (01:27)
you
Dr Fallon (01:33)
then this episode will give you guidance on how to achieve this.
Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast companion to the Sombelle pediatric sleep programs created by us. I'm Dr. Fallon Cook and I'm here with Dr. Laura Conway. are PhDs and sleep practitioners and co-directors of Infant Sleep Australia. Laura, happy new year.
Dr Laura (02:09)
Yes, and to you, our first episode of 2025. Can you believe it?
Dr Fallon (02:15)
Yeah, my gosh, and we're up to like 78 episodes now. It's just amazing. No, I can't quite believe it. How was your break over Christmas and New Year's?
Dr Laura (02:25)
Yeah, it was lovely. Thank you. I had a really nice time. Really enjoyed Christmas with the kids. Despite them getting older, they're still very excited about Christmas. And so that's lovely to see. How about you? Did you have a nice Christmas?
Dr Fallon (02:33)
Nice.
Awww.
Yeah.
Yeah, it was awesome. It was so nice to see you on Christmas day. We posted some photos of us enjoying what was it? Eggnog and pavlova. Yeah, it was so good. Lots of laughs and yeah, it was so much fun. And I just had, yeah, the last two weeks I have just absolutely disconnected from my work role and just set it to one side and being fully immersed in the kids and
Dr Laura (02:46)
You
Have Lover.
Dr Fallon (03:09)
It's just been abs it's honestly, I said to the kids, it's been one of the best weeks of my life. Like we have just really enjoyed each other's company. We've been out bushwalking. We've been swimming heaps of times. you know, going for like big walks around lakes and I don't know, just really enjoying time together. And it has been so special. I've absolutely loved it. Yeah. It's felt very,
Dr Laura (03:29)
Aww. Yeah, that's wonderful. Aww.
Dr Fallon (03:35)
Excuse me, very restful. And I think I really needed that. I was limping towards the end of the year and now I'm really feeling refreshed and like ready to get back into things. And was really looking forward to recording this episode as well, actually. So yeah, it's, really nice.
Dr Laura (03:39)
Yeah. yes. Yes.
Yes. great.
I had a very spontaneous and unexpected fun activity in the last week, which I just have to tell our listeners about. So I had a friend over from the UK. It was lovely to see her. And we both used to love Robbie Williams back in the day. And while she was here, there was an announcement that Robbie had a free gig in Melbourne in Federation Square.
Dr Fallon (03:59)
Yes, do it.
Dr Laura (04:19)
So my friend and I hopped on the train and hop-footed it into Federation Square and got nearly front row seats at this front row standing at Robbie Williams and the sun was shining, he was obnoxious and rude as he always is, very entertaining and I just couldn't believe it standing there with a friend from the UK who I don't get to see very often.
Dr Fallon (04:28)
Awesome.
Hahaha!
you
Dr Laura (04:44)
singing along to his songs and it was just a wonderful, wonderful start to 2025. So yeah, hit the high notes and hoping it's just set the tone for the rest of the year.
Dr Fallon (04:50)
That's awesome.
I love it. That'd be like a couple of Aussies being in London and seeing John Farnham in concert or something like I would be there singing along. that's so good. That reminds me Laura, you know, Robbie Williams did the, like the entertainment for the New Year's Eve celebrations at Sydney. So it was like televised on ABC and I'd stayed up. So my youngest had fallen asleep. had taken herself off to bed, but my two boys had stayed up for midnight and we like,
Dr Laura (05:01)
Yes!
my god, it's so good.
Yes!
Dr Fallon (05:23)
have the tally on, we're getting ready to watch the fireworks all go off at midnight. And so we've all been waiting for hours. We've watched Robbie Williams singing along. And then my husband came in at about four minutes to midnight and just thought, we're on the Sydney. Like, why wouldn't you be on the Sydney fireworks, right? They're the best ones. But he's like, and he just decided he was going to try and find the Melbourne celebrations for the midnight thing at four minutes to midnight. So of course.
Dr Laura (05:28)
Yeah.
You
no.
Dr Fallon (05:52)
The minute he got out of that, he couldn't even find the Melbourne fireworks anyway, I don't think. And I was like, no, no, go back to Sydney. Sydney's the one everyone wants to watch, right? The Sydney Harbour Bridge and it's spectacular. Wouldn't let him back in. I think everyone was trying to get on there. So we waited hours. We missed it. We joined at about 12.03 or something like that. I was fuming. Like you don't, just don't touch the controller at four minutes to me. Just leave it. What are you doing?
Dr Laura (06:06)
no! So you missed it.
Dr Fallon (06:21)
anyway, it was very funny. We're just pressing like join, join, join, and it's just going error, error, error. my God. Anyway, doesn't matter. The new year still happened.
Dr Laura (06:23)
I'm just laughing so hard that is so funny I could just picture it
Yeah,
yeah, well, I hope that everybody else who's listening to us had a really lovely New Year's and managed to see the fireworks if they were staying up to watch them. You didn't have a malfunction like that.
Dr Fallon (06:39)
You
Yes
Yes. Oh, well, you know, in thinking about today's episode, I was sort of thinking about how so many families have been away or might still be away at this time. Like lots of us are on the road visiting family and throw your sleep schedules out of whack quite a bit. Um, but so often for babies and toddlers, they're pretty hesitant to sleep somewhere different.
And I know that we are preparing in clinic over the next month. We're going to have a whole lot of very stressed out families saying we co-slept for just a couple of nights over Christmas when we were traveling and now they won't go back in their own car or bed again. and I just thought, well, let's do an episode on that. So if the wheels have fallen off and now you've got, an unwanted visitor in your bed at nighttime, let's talk through, you know, why that sometimes happens and you know what you can do about it.
Dr Laura (07:22)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (07:39)
so that we set your new year off to a really good start. you know, and we have sleep ticking along really, really nicely. all right. So maybe Laura, do you want to start by talking about probably the two kind of common factors that, can kick off some, sorry, I'm to the side cause I heard the back door and I'm so sure I'm going to get a knock on the door any second from one of my kids. It's very disconcerting. What are they, what are they up to? Yeah.
Dr Laura (07:42)
Yes.
Mmm.
okay. Or a dog.
Dr Fallon (08:06)
Cause my husband's away at work and I'm just relying on my children staying inside and being good. When I hear the back door go, it's like, Ooh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Still holiday time. but yeah, let's talk through what often kicks off bed sharing.
Dr Laura (08:07)
Yeah
Yes, of course, because it's still holiday time. Yes.
Yeah, so often it does start during the holidays. And when people are out of whack, know, children, babies and toddlers are no longer going to daycare, there might be people visiting. So it can happen when you're still in the same house, you're still at home, or it can happen because you're gone away and you're staying at a relative's or you're camping or you're somewhere different. And then there sometimes isn't a
a separate room for your baby or toddler, or you're using a travel cot for the first time and your baby or toddler doesn't like it and you just, you you need to get some sleep and you say, come and sleep in our bed. And then, yeah, when you try to do a reset and say, okay, that was nice, that's helped us through that point where we all need to sleep and it was all, everything was up in the air. Now we want you back in your own bed. They just go, uh-uh, quiet.
Dr Fallon (09:15)
They remember.
They know there's another option now.
Dr Laura (09:16)
Yeah, I quite like that. That's right. Yeah. And
then what sometimes can happen is that when before you have this little change in where they are sleeping, they may well have had a change in their sleep needs, but they were so had such a strong association between falling asleep in their cot or bed that they would tolerate going to bed perhaps
before they were quite tired enough and they would just lie in their bed or cot and roll around for a little while before going off to sleep. Now they've seen that there's a possibility of falling asleep in the parents' bed. They have that preference now. You try to put them to bed at their usual sleep time, but they're no longer going to be happy just to roll around and drift off quietly. They are going to be perhaps using stalling behaviors if they're toddlers or they're just being...
crying and wanting to be picked up with their babies. And so it's often because actually their sleep pressure is a little bit low when you're putting them to bed and you just hadn't noticed that their sleep needs have changed because that association happened quite high between their sleep space and falling asleep. So I would be suggesting as a starting point for all of you who are listening, who are facing this challenge is to log your child's sleep.
Dr Fallon (10:22)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (10:43)
Check out the unique sleep needs chapter and look to ensure that the daily rhythm that you're using for your baby or toddler is still correct. It might be that you need to adjust the naps or you need to adjust bedtime or wake up if their sleep needs have changed.
Dr Fallon (10:44)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely. And I think even in the sort of absence of travel, travel and, know, moving around, sleeping in different places, I think for a lot of, you a of parents go into parenting and they're like, I'm never going to bed share with my baby. I know the seeds risks. They're never coming into my bed. They have all the right intentions, but
I think so often what can happen is there's so much noise out there about babies need to have long day naps and you know, there's all that, it ends up out of kilter. So much of that advice is suggesting huge amounts of day sleep and then inevitably they have low sleep pressure overnight. And then the parent who says, I'm never going to bedshare is suddenly like, my baby's awake for two hours, you know, twice each night. What do I do with them? I can't be hovering over the cot the whole time.
Dr Laura (11:23)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
yeah.
Dr Fallon (11:43)
Nothing I'm doing is working and then out of total desperation, they're just like, I'm just going to bring them into my bed. So at least I can be lying down if they're awake for a long time. So, so often I think for those families, it's about sleep needs not being catered to properly, not due to the parents fault, but just all that misinformation that is making it so difficult to, you know, understand unique sleep needs. That's forcing a lot of parents into bed sharing when they actually don't want to, but
Dr Laura (11:52)
Yes.
Mm. Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (12:12)
What else are
they supposed to do when they're having big split nights and circadian rhythm difficulties because they've had that advice around pushing for super, super long day naps. So yeah, I agree with you, Laura. Definitely if you're having trouble with stopping co-sleeping or bed sharing that you don't want to be doing, definitely look at what their sleep needs are. So often when they're co-sleeping or bed sharing that
Dr Laura (12:15)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (12:36)
total sleep need is a little bit inflated as well because it's so warm and comforting. They can doze for quite a long time. So, you know, be considering that as well. I think that's a really good first step to think about. I think the other one too, for so many families, one of the root causes of suddenly bed sharing can be if there's a really strong feed to sleep association where a baby just will not fall asleep unless they're fed to sleep.
Dr Laura (12:41)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (13:04)
Often pretty quickly that results in so much night waking, like we're talking seven or eight night wakes. It's just so exhausting for those parents that they just find it easier to bring them into their bed. The baby can latch on and off whenever they want to. And it's just a case of parents just wanting to be able to lay flat and get some rest to cope with that feeding to sleep. But also, you know, it's usually not, look, there will be, there are parents who love bed sharing and that's.
Dr Laura (13:09)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (13:33)
Like, fine. If you love it, well, you don't have a problem then. But for the majority, it's exhausting if you've got a baby who sometimes they are just constantly latched on all night and a lot of parents can't sleep through that. And it really impacts how they're feeling and their levels of exhaustion.
Dr Laura (13:34)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And so therefore one of the things that is a really useful tool is to begin to step away from the feed to sleep association. Because once your baby learns to fall asleep in a different way, when they come up into light sleep during the night, they're not going to be thinking, I can't go back to sleep without having another feed. Of course, they're not thinking of that consciously.
Dr Fallon (14:03)
Mmm.
Mm.
Dr Laura (14:22)
They won't have the feed to sleep association. So they're more likely to do longer stretches of sleep, linking their cycles independently without relying on needing to latch back on. So it is a really tricky place to be where families are feeding to sleep, their baby is then waking up often overnight. Therefore they move to bed sharing when they previously have said they don't want to do it in order to meet.
that they can still be lying down and getting some rest. But often they, as you're saying, fell and they're exhausted because they're not, their nights are still fragmented. are, but the parents themselves are having to latch their baby on multiple times overnight. And then it just really can start to grind them down just because they are sleep, they become very sleep deprived themselves.
Dr Fallon (15:01)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (15:16)
So yeah, I'd be thinking through if that is a situation that you're in, reading through the different approaches in Sombelle to see how you can move away from feeding to sleep. And it may be that you continue to bedshare whilst you use other approaches to settle your baby in whatever way you can, but just not involving the feeding to sleep. And then you move to moving them into their own sleep space.
Dr Fallon (15:29)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (15:43)
or you might kind of pull the bandaid off all at once and put them into their own sleep space. And that can be in the room with you. They can be, you can have their bed, they're caught in the bedroom with you, but you just need to be out of their sight if possible, if there isn't separation and anxiety involved. And then you choose one of the Sombelle approaches to support your little one to go to sleep without relying on being fed to sleep.
Dr Fallon (15:46)
Mmm.
Yeah, and I would say if you've got a baby, I'm always super, super cautious with this stuff. If you're bed sharing and you've got a baby, we know there's an increased risk there. So I would definitely be suggesting to parents that you don't do something more gradual and that you just move to settling them in their cot. It's going to feel tricky, but you know, it's about reducing risk, very real risks. I've worked with families who have lost babies through bed sharing and I don't ever want to see that happen again.
So, you know, for little babies, would say move them to their cot, you can them lots of hands-on support, work through the Sunbell approaches and find one that works for you. With toddlers, we can take a more relaxed approach to that because those risks start to reduce in toddlerhood. So for a lot of toddlers, if it is, you know, that they're wanting to feed to sleep all the time through the night, often I suggest just stopping the feed to sleep. So keep going with the bed sharing, explain to them there's not going to be any more feeding overnight.
Dr Laura (16:53)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (17:08)
and work on stopping that. There'll be some really tricky resettles, but you're right there with them. You can give them all the comfort in the world. You can give them a sippy cup of water if you're worried that they're thirsty, but they'll probably throw it right back at you. It's not going to be what they want, but you are going to be there to give them all the comfort. They're not scared or worried or frightened. It just matters how that you're not giving them that feed in the night.
Dr Laura (17:13)
Mm.
Yes!
Dr Fallon (17:32)
But, you know, work on stopping the feeds with your toddler. And then once they're no longer expecting that, then it's often an easier place to begin thinking, okay, well, are we moving them to a cot? Are they old enough for a bed? And in Sunbell in the toddler program, it's one of the things I'm most proud of with that program is that there's lots of options for, you know, if they are in a bed, you could do something like a co-sleeping fade out approach, which is very gentle and very gradual and well supported. You know,
Dr Laura (17:41)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (17:58)
there's a guardian gate approach as well. There's lots of different approaches in there depending on what suits your child. That yeah, you can explore. But I think you raised a really good point Laura around like, should you be in the room or not? And how's all that going to work? Generally, I would say when a child is used to being in the parent bed and that's what they're expecting, they are gonna be really furious if they can see that bed and you're not taking them in there.
Dr Laura (18:01)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (18:26)
And that's not just toddlers, but even babies, older babies, you know, can get pretty cranky when they can see that bed. So often I will say to families, have a think, like, is it that you, this is the time to move them to their own room? In which case you can still sleep in there. If you want to do something gradual, you can still sleep in their room with them and gradually work on leaving their room. But it could be really helpful because sometimes it's like a new room. They don't know what to expect, new rules. They can't see the bed where they'd rather be with you.
Dr Laura (18:26)
Mmm.
Mmm.
He
Yes.
Dr Fallon (18:53)
And you can have a much easier time of making those changes. But other parents are just like, I'm not ready for them to be anywhere else. And even though they can see the bed, we're just gonna push through regardless. And you know, that's okay as well.
Dr Laura (19:01)
Mm-hmm.
Yes. Yeah.
And the other thing to consider when you have toddlers is how to motivate them to want to stay in their bed all night long, than, sometimes we see toddlers will go to sleep in their own bed, but if they have preferences co-sleeping, they might hop out of their bed and toddle into yours in the middle of the night.
Dr Fallon (19:29)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (19:31)
And sometimes parents wake up and just find their two or three year old pressed up against them and they don't even remember them coming in. And they're these little stealth ninjas in the night. So thinking about bringing in some kind of reward system that your toddler will understand and will motivate them to stay in their bed overnight. So that in the morning when they have stayed in bed overnight,
Dr Fallon (19:37)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (19:58)
they get a sticker or a little, or, and a little gift in the SOMBEL program. We talk about different reward systems that you could use and that you want to be making them feel really, really proud of themselves. So you might have a little dance party in the morning. They did so well. And just when they don't manage it, just not making them feel bad about it at all.
Dr Fallon (20:13)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (20:25)
But really we're just focusing on the behaviour that we do want to see. So they feel really, really good about themselves.
Dr Fallon (20:30)
Yes.
Yeah. And that's why it's so important. If you're thinking about using rewards, I see a lot of parents say, yeah, we set up the system. They were going to get a scooter if they stay in bed all night. Like, so these parents are expecting, yeah, for a week. Yeah. So it's like this little kid has got to suddenly do something they might actually be quite scared about, in order to get this huge price. It's too much. And the risks of failure, like the chances of failure are too high.
Dr Laura (20:46)
for a week, you know, they're loved and it will love to be.
Dr Fallon (21:02)
make it so easy for them. Like the first step might be if you return to your bed in the night, you can come into my bed and visit me, but I'm going to take you back to your bed and as long as you do all of your sleep in your bed, then there's a reward in the morning. So you're just getting them practicing going back to their bed again. And then it might be, you can call out, but don't come visit me.
Dr Laura (21:18)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (21:24)
You know, call out to me as many times as you want to, and I'll come and see you, but you've got to keep off and call it, keep your bottom on the bed. Bottoms have to stay on beds. And if your bottom leaves the bed, uh-oh, we can't, you know, have the sticker in the morning. so yeah, making it really easy for them. So they are feeling really happy and motivated and, really wanting to do it. So, yeah. So if you are, I noticed we've had a lot of new members to our toddlers program. And I reckon that a lot of those parents are dealing with, yeah.
Dr Laura (21:24)
Yes.
Again.
Yes.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (21:51)
toddler's getting out of bed in the night. So definitely read through, um, how to sort of put a reward system in place. Cause if they're old enough to understand it and feel motivated, it's lovely when you switch from, you know, having to have rules around things to actually just moving to encouragement and praise and seeing these delighted little faces light up because they're actually loving this new process of sleeping in their own bed rather than feeling, you know, like they're being told what to do. Um, yeah.
Dr Laura (22:10)
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, absolutely.
Dr Fallon (22:21)
So look, hopefully there's some good tips there. think for, you know, if you've got your child in a cot, they're not currently bed sharing or maybe they're in a toddler bed. The things you're going to look out for and making sure sleep pressure doesn't get too low overnight and that they start kind of wanting to get up and come and visit you. And, you know, avoiding any kind of association that's causing them to wake up really frequently overnight. Cause they're the two things that are really going to make you,
start to think should I bring them into my bed? And that's what we want to avoid. And if you do have a baby or a toddler who's bed sharing, know that you can feel, I think a lot of these parents will say things to us like, it's just, you know, how do I ever get out of this trench, this hole that I've dug for myself? How I ever get out of it? Surely, you know, I'm just going to be trapped with this. No, absolutely not. You're the parent. You have a very safe place for your child to sleep. They can get used to sleeping somewhere else.
Dr Laura (22:49)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (23:16)
And if you're worried about fears or anxiety in your child, there's sections in Sunbell you can read through on that to make sure that you're using the right approach for your child's needs and requirements. So you can do it.
Dr Laura (23:27)
Yeah, you can do it. if you're
having trouble doing it or you've read through Sombelle, you've read through all the approaches, but you still are feeling a little bit nervous, then do book in for a coaching call. And we can talk it through with you, come up with some bespoke solutions for your particular toddler or baby. And yeah, then we'll help you have the best plan.
Dr Fallon (23:42)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (23:56)
And often that's what you need in the middle of the night when you're feeling really shattered and you think, God, it's just easier to bring them into bed with us because then at least we all sleep. When you have a plan and you don't have to be thinking through what are they all the different options I could go through at this point, you don't have to do that. You've got to plan. You just know what your response is going to be overnight. It's easier for you and it's therefore easier for your baby or toddler.
Dr Fallon (23:59)
Hmm.
a hundred percent. And parents are often stunned at how quickly toddler sleep turns around. We get so many questions about baby sleep. We really should talk more about toddler sleep. We need to do an episode soon, really digging into that. But toddler sleep turns around really quickly once you've got the right plan in place. Yeah, it's amazing how quickly things can change.
Dr Laura (24:31)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And once you have your ex,
you manage your expectations because toddlers are loud. They can be very loud and they can be very opinionated. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (24:47)
yeah, very strong
willed and they know exactly how to behave to really touch the nerves. But we love them. I do love working with toddlers. They are amazing little things. yeah. All right. Well, let's dive into some parent questions because there's a few really meaty questions this week, which I really like. Shall I start by reading out this one from Joanne?
Dr Laura (24:58)
Yeah.
me too.
Yeah
Yeah
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (25:18)
All right. So Joanne says, following Sombelle, my son was finally sleeping through the night or waking only once. Brilliant. He was self settling for his naps and went down brilliantly at night. But after a few bouts of sickness and through sheer exhaustion, I have slipped back into old habits of feeding to sleep and bringing him into my bed. How very appropriate for this episode. Thanks, Joanne. Ties in very nicely. it happens to so many parents.
Dr Laura (25:39)
Yes.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (25:45)
So
Joanne says, he's now 10 months old. I'm trying to reintroduce the supported accelerated approach that previously worked, but he seems to be having a much bigger reaction this time around. Even before I put him into his cot, he starts screaming as soon as we enter his room, even when I'm still holding him. Gosh. So Joanne asks a few questions. First of all, she wonders, could it be separation anxiety?
Dr Laura (26:04)
Mm.
Well, Joanne, you're right in the age range where separation anxiety can start to become quite strong. So you describe how your baby is 10 months old. So I would be looking to see how he's behaving during the day to determine if it is separation anxiety. Sometimes babies will or toddlers will simply protest loudly at bedtime. But during the day, they're absolutely fine watching mum or dad walk away from them.
for short periods of time and they tolerate it really well. And in that case, it's generally more about a behavioral issue around sleep. But if you are noticing that your 10 month old is getting upset during the day and it's not around sleep, is getting upset, you know, you can't pop your baby down on the ground and go out of his sight for a few seconds even, or a minute, then potentially it's separation anxiety.
And then what you'd be looking at is thinking about using the support accelerated approach, but just staying within your baby's sight when you're using the approach so that we don't trigger any anxiety in your little one when you're using that approach. The other thing is that he could well be having a much bigger reaction now simply because he's a little bit older. And as babies get older,
Dr Fallon (27:19)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (27:37)
they start to understand cause and effect a little bit more. And they, I mean, he is still a baby, he's not a toddler yet, but the behaviors can start to get bigger and louder.
Dr Fallon (27:48)
Yeah, yeah
and keep in mind you're right there with him, like you're there with him, you're comforting him, if he's having a really big reaction he's okay, he's not scared, he's not worried, you're there with him. Joanne also asks when my baby is sick or teething should I continue trying to push through with self-settling?
Dr Laura (27:56)
Hmm.
So general rule of thumb, it's a good idea to pause. If you are in the middle of using a cot settling approach for the first time, I would be pausing it if your child is sick, because it's just not appropriate to be trying to insist on persisting with settling if your little one's got a fever or is really in pain. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (28:32)
Well, that's the key. Isn't it? Like if it's a
mild cold, just keep going. It's fine. But yeah, if they're really unwell and out of sorts, yeah. Put, put pause on it. Yeah. And teething can often be managed with Panadol and Urefin as well. So keep that in mind. It might be that you just use some pain relief and you keep going. If you've, you know, made a start, you may as well just keep, keep trying to persist if you can.
Dr Laura (28:36)
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yes!
keep going. sometimes babies
can be teething for months on end and you'd never get anywhere if you paused for teething. So as long as you're managing the pain and they're not a baby that is really, really bothered by teething, then just keep persisting.
Dr Fallon (28:59)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
So Joanne also says, even when he was self settling really well and was generally happy going to sleep, he would still wake up in some distress and I'm struggling to understand why. Could these be bad dreams already?
Dr Laura (29:25)
Um, at 10 months old, look, it's unlikely to be bad dreams. Um, some babies do just wake up in the night and have a bit of a yell. Um, he's, you're describing him as generally happy, happy going to sleep, happy in his cot. So I think it's just one of those things and nothing to worry about. Um, I just have a little caution around the word distress. Again, that's us putting our interpretation on that cry in the middle of the night. It might not be distress. It can just be a bit of a.
Dr Fallon (29:42)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (29:54)
a bit of a cry out, just want to seek in connection with you or just coming up into light sleep and going, what's going on? back to sleep again. So nothing to worry about.
Dr Fallon (30:07)
Yeah, and some babies just
hate transitions, don't they? Like they can have a good night's sleep, but wake up in the morning and they're just furious for a few minutes and then they're perfectly happy once they've made that transition to wakefulness. Yeah, thanks for sending in your questions, Joanne. Do you want to read out Tiffany's question?
Dr Laura (30:11)
Hmm.
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, so Tiffany says, when I bought some Bell, my baby was five months old and was co sleeping out of necessity, not choice, as he was waking every one to two hours all night long. Tiffany, she says, Luckily, I found your program and implemented the accelerated approach and it works straight away. He went to sleeping and self settling in his cot for his naps and through the night with just minor hiccups. Well done, Tiffany.
Dr Fallon (30:44)
Thanks
Dr Laura (30:52)
Now Tiffany says, fast forward and my baby is almost nine months old. We recently went away for nine days during which time he had naps on the go more often and fell asleep on me a fair few times due to plane travel and being out and about. We're back home and he will not nap in his cot during the day. Tiffany says she doesn't think it's a sleep pressure issue because he was doing two hours in the day, but because of this difficulty with settling,
It's now becoming just a one hour day nap and he's still self settling at bedtime and sleeping through the night. Tiffany says, I've tried pushing him to be really quite tired in the day to the point he's almost falling asleep when I try to put him down. But he then screams and stands up in his cot for 30 minutes straight with no break. She says, if I go in and put my hands on him, he calms down enough to fall asleep.
but I'm worried that this will become a new preference and I would like him to be able to fall asleep on his own again. So Tiffany's questions are, she's got two, so I'll just read them both out. She says, could this be separation anxiety or is this him fighting for a preference? And she then says related to this, do I take a different approach or go back to the beginning with the settling? And I assume she means going back to using the accelerated approach.
Dr Fallon (31:57)
Mm.
Hmm.
Wow, there's a lot to digest there. And I love again, Tiffany's just perfectly illustrating the whole topic of this podcast episode. It's so common. Yeah. At this age, especially he's nine months old. He's gotten a taste of a different way of settling one that he doesn't remember from the very early months. And he's probably just really wanting to hold onto him. Could it be separation anxiety? I mean, it could be the fact that
Dr Laura (32:24)
Yeah.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (32:45)
you know, your
Yeah. I mean, even if it is separation anxiety, you can still make progress with cot settling. So if you're in the room and he's getting really, really cranky being in his cot, it's probably not separation anxiety. It's him going, Hey, I don't want to be in here. Come over here and get me out of here. you know, and she says easy fighting for a preference, having a preference to nap on her. Probably. So look, I suppose what I want to say is in any case, doesn't.
Dr Laura (32:52)
Mm.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (33:13)
matter in terms of what approach you're going to use. If you think there's separation anxiety, of course stay in the room, but some bowel approaches mostly suggest that you do anyway. The fact that if you put hands on him, he calms down enough to fall asleep. Maybe that's your starting point. Maybe it's using, could just be for day naps, use the quick fade approach where you do have some padding and some humming until he sleeps and then you phase that out over time. Or it could just be that you have a
Dr Laura (33:21)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (33:41)
a chair near the cot and you go back to that supported accelerated approach so that your hands on support is just a little bit more intermittent. And that could be a good way to make progress. The fact that he is still sleeping really well overnight tells us that he can self settle. So I would be leaning towards him just thinking, no, I've got a preference to be held for day naps. And I think if I cry hard enough, mom might give in and do it. So I think whatever you decide to do, just stick to it like
Dr Laura (33:56)
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (34:09)
because what he needs to see from you is that it doesn't matter how crazy he gets that you are just this calm, consistent and repetitive parent in just using the exact same approach every time. Would you add anything to that Laura? Have I missed anything?
Dr Laura (34:24)
No, no,
I think that was a perfect answer. So well done, Tiffany, you made great progress before you've just had a little blip. He's had a taste of a different way of sleeping and he'd quite like to continue with that. And you would prefer him to go back to sleeping as he did before you went away. And that's a perfectly reasonable parenting choice to make. So either move to the move to the quick fade or go back to using the supported accelerated.
Dr Fallon (34:39)
Hmm.
Yes, 100%.
Dr Laura (34:52)
and just be consistent and calm and you should get through it Tiffany.
Dr Fallon (35:00)
Yeah, awesome. All right. We also had Melissa write in who said, firstly, thank you so much for your work. I thought would be rocking Miss L. She calls it to sleep until high school. Well, thank goodness you're not. So Melissa says we took your advice from the last podcast and switch to the advanced accelerated approach, which really helped with the night waking. Everything was going so well.
Dr Laura (35:17)
you
Dr Fallon (35:28)
But then everything went downhill. Melissa, it's a roller coaster with kids sometimes. She says, my two concerns are that Miss 14 months is now waking a lot overnight and is often taking a very long time to go down for naps, particularly in the afternoon. Melissa adds full disclosure, we still stay in the room until she's asleep and we'll give her the odd pat and shush if needed. We started the parental fading the day before everything went pear shaped.
Dr Laura (35:30)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (35:57)
So she's got a few questions here. I'll read them out one at a time. Melissa wonders, could Miss 14 months be ready for one nap? If we're heading towards one nap, should I work to extend the morning nap as it's often only 30 minutes or will she do this naturally once she's on one nap?
Dr Laura (36:14)
Yeah, Melissa, I would say at 14 months old, she's showing a number of signs that she is ready to drop down to one nap. So waking more frequently overnight, taking a long time to go to sleep for those naps, particularly the one in the afternoon. So we're going tick, tick, for it being an appropriate step to take to move her to the one nap. And I would be looking to...
Think about combining those two naps that she's having. So the morning one's 30 minutes at the moment. I'm not sure how long the afternoon one is, but let's say it's an hour. You'd be looking at offering her one nap of about an hour and a half and getting as close as you can towards the middle of the day for that nap. You're not going to make, she's not going to make it straight off the bat. It always takes about a week for a baby to get used to or a toddler to get used to a new daily rhythm. So I'd be
just say picking your day. And then when she normally goes down for her morning nap, think about having some distractions available for her and just to keep her occupied so that you can keep her up for a little bit longer before you put her down. And then just let that be a long nap and see how close you can get to bedtime in the evening. Have a little look at the power nap option if you have to.
but I think that's definitely the way to go.
Dr Fallon (37:43)
Yeah.
Yeah. And that ties into Melissa's next question, which is when children drop naps, they also drop sleep needs. And that's always, we always sort of assume, don't we, that they won't. And we test out that new schedule offering the same amount of sleep. And if it's not working, then we would look at dialing it back. Is that what you would say, Laura?
Dr Laura (37:56)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I'd say that they are independent issues. So the dropping to fewer naps is due to a child getting old enough. As they get older, they build their sleep pressure more slowly during the day. So they begin to head towards what they will be like by the time they are preschoolers, i.e. they don't need to nap at all. And when we're at that point, we build sleep pressure slowly during the day.
Dr Fallon (38:09)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (38:31)
little babies build sleep pressure quickly and they need to have lots of naps to relieve it during the day. the dropping down to fewer naps is more to do with the kind of the chemistry of sleep hormones in the body. Whereas sleep needs is just something separate. That's like height and weight. Yeah. So that's just, so sometimes they coincide.
Dr Fallon (38:51)
height or weight. Jinx.
Dr Laura (38:58)
and the child will have a drop in sleep needs at the same time that they drop to fewer naps, but not always. So yeah, like you're saying, Fallon, our starting point is assuming it's the same and we combine the naps into however many we're dropping down to. if in doubt, just before you make any big change like that, as we always say, just log the sleep again, see what the sleep needs are, and then work out what's gonna suit you as a family.
Dr Fallon (38:59)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Mm.
Dr Laura (39:26)
Like whether a longer nap or a shorter nap will work better for you as a family. And give it a go for a week.
Dr Fallon (39:27)
Mmm.
Yep.
Awesome.
I love that answer. I love the way you explained the two different sort of processes happening there too. Awesome. Melissa also wonders, does teething derails sleep? There's actually been a study on this. I don't know if you know this Laura, but there was a study that found that teething doesn't interrupt sleep and a whole lot of parents got very mad about those findings. I certainly think that it can. I mean, if I've got a toothache, I'm, it's good, like for an adult, it's going to interrupt your sleep, isn't it? So it seems logical that it could.
Dr Laura (39:47)
Hmm.
yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (40:05)
but I'd probably be answering that in a similar way to earlier, try and manage it with Panadol and Urofen. And if Panadol and Urofen doesn't make a difference, probably not teething.
Dr Laura (40:10)
Yeah.
Yes, that's right. That's right. And like we said before, know, some children can seem to be teething, babies can be teething for months and months on end. And if you decide that you're not going to tackle sleep whilst they're teething, that might mean that you've got months ahead of you of them having disturbed sleep and you also having disturbed sleep. No, that's right.
Dr Fallon (40:17)
Mmm.
That's not good for anyone.
And finally, Melissa wants to know, she says, understand that leaps and wonder weeks aren't true, but her language has exploded recently. Could it be this or could it be, as you mentioned in episode 58, a bumpy patch?
Dr Laura (40:52)
Melissa, I think it's very likely it's because she needs to drop down to one nap. And so it's not even a bumpy patch. Bumpy patches tend to be just in them when everything is as it should be. Like we have the right number of naps, we have the right bedtime and wake up time, but it's just a little bit bumpy for just no apparent reason. And so this I think is really due to her needing to drop down to one nap. Her sleep pressure is building more slowly during the day and she just can't manage to have.
Dr Fallon (40:58)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (41:21)
to naps and maintain her sleep well overnight. The only thing I would add is that on top of that is that you are still in the room with her as she falls asleep and you're giving her the odd pat and shush as she's falling asleep. She's having the language explosion. She may just want to be practicing it. And whilst you're there.
Dr Fallon (41:26)
Hmm.
Yeah. She's probably going, mom or dad's over there. I'll see
what they do. If I say mama or something. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So if you, if you decide to stay in the room, you just, just close your eyes, pretend you're not there. Pretend you're asleep. Really show her that bedtime's not talk time. Um, and I think too, you know, once you've got that sleep pressure issue solved and you move to one nap, try leaving the room. So often they, they calm down quicker when we move out of their space.
Dr Laura (41:49)
Yes!
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (42:12)
then yeah, they start to really settle down and get off to sleep quickly. So have a bit of a think about that as well. Thanks for setting that in Melissa, that's a question.
Dr Laura (42:17)
Hmm.
Yeah, thanks, Melissa.
Yeah. Okay, our next question is from Rhea who sends in her first question. And Rhea says, my 13 month old loves to nap in the pram and sleeps much longer. And she asks, is that detrimental to night sleep in the cot? He's currently hysterical for settling that she's doing.
Dr Fallon (42:43)
it's a really good question. mean, some babies or I suppose this one's on the cusp of childhood. Some can have all their naps in the pram in the daytime and have fantastic nights. And it just doesn't matter provided they're not overdoing the total day sleep. And that is a slippery slope. If they sleep really well in the pram, sometimes they're getting too much day sleep and that's making nights really tricky.
Dr Laura (43:04)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (43:06)
definitely look at the unique sleep needs chapter and try and keep account of what his unique sleep needs are. but I think what Ria is getting at is, know, is it okay to be settling in two different ways? Are we going to make progress with night sleep in the cot if he's expecting to have day naps on the go? And I think that really depends on the baby. Cause there are so many babies who, absolutely can nap on the pram and they're perfectly happy to settle in their cot at nighttime.
Dr Laura (43:29)
you
Dr Fallon (43:36)
They understand that different times of day, there are different ways of falling asleep and it's fine. It's never an issue. And then there are others that are just like, absolutely not get me in that pram. I'm not sleeping in that cot. I think you've got to look at the individual baby. And if you think that that's the case, that he's really reactive to that and just thinks that he can sleep all the time in the pram, it might be that for a week or so you just practice doing the nap in the cot.
Dr Laura (43:46)
You
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (44:03)
every single day, even if he's not napping for as long, don't worry about it. It won't hurt. It won't do any harm if his naps are a bit shorter. Um, but it might just be the, the kind of little push that he needs to realize, okay, day and night I'm falling asleep in my cot. And then you might start to see much less resistance when you're trying to settle him in the cot, because he's understanding there's not another option after a week or two, you might find that the odd nap in the pram is fine and he can tolerate that. Um, so yeah, you might have to do a little bit of experimenting there, Ria.
Dr Laura (44:03)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (44:33)
But yeah, it's a really good question. See how you go. And if you've got more questions, we're here to answer them. Would you add anything more to that one, Laura?
Dr Laura (44:38)
Yeah.
Just for other listeners, if you are in Rhea's shoes and what you're finding is happening is that your baby or toddler will only nap in the pram and then you're doing things like rocking them to sleep in their pram in their bedroom at night time as well and then transferring them to the cot and then they're waking a lot overnight. That's when we really know that your baby or toddler has got a sleep association with the pram and that it's actually
Dr Fallon (44:56)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (45:09)
going to be a good idea to take the bull by the horns and do some cot settling and just pause those pram settles for a while just whilst you give your little one the tools and skills to be able to go to sleep in their cot. So that's often a kind of bit of a red flag that something needs to be done. If the preference for the pram is getting so strong that you're also rocking them to sleep at seven o'clock at night every night in the pram before transferring them to the cot. it does, yeah.
Dr Fallon (45:16)
Mm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah. And it happens. I've definitely worked
with families where that has happened. And if you're to work on cut selling at that point, it's got to be a really clean switch because otherwise they end up really confused. If sometimes it's the pram and other times it's the cot. Yeah. You just get resistance constantly. so yeah, make a clean switch, stick to it. They'll adapt. They'll get used to it. Hmm.
Dr Laura (45:40)
yeah.
Mm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (45:59)
All right, we had Olivia write in who says her baby is now almost 13 months old and has an 11 hour sleep need. She says Sunbell has enabled me to design and implement a consistent daily rhythm with two naps totaling one and a half hours day sleep and to achieve a full night's sleep for many months now. So her baby sleeping 8.30 PM to 6 AM every night. Well done, Olivia. That's fantastic.
Dr Laura (46:22)
Yeah, that's great.
Dr Fallon (46:24)
Yeah, so Olivia writes that over the last few weeks bedtime has begun pushing later, so getting closer to 9pm. Settling for the second nap takes longer and then this means bedtime is affected. However, she goes down for her first nap very easily and would sleep longer if Olivia didn't wake her. Her daily sleep duration has been getting down to 10 and a half hours for several days each week for the past three to four weeks.
However, she seems to have the best temperament when she gets closer to 11 hours. Okay, so we've got a few questions here. I might just read them all out and might be better to respond to them as a whole. So Olivia asks, would you suggest that it is a little too early to move her to one nap per day? I'm gonna say, nope, it's not.
Dr Laura (47:01)
Mm-hmm.
No.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (47:12)
just very quickly. She says
if not what time would you suggest I aim for this nap based on her current daily rhythm? So currently she's napping at 9 30 a.m and 2 p.m. Olivia's a little worried she may get very tired in the morning if this nap is too close is pushed close to lunchtime given that she goes to sleep quite easily for her first nap. And in the transition to one nap do you suggest just shifting to a new time and sticking to it or gradually moving to a later time?
Dr Laura (47:39)
Yeah, so Olivia, you probably have enjoyed the answers that we gave to Melissa's questions earlier, because very similar. Melissa's baby is 14 months old and your baby is 30 months old. So very similar. So yeah, like Fallon has said, it's definitely not too early to move to one nap a day. You've just described, you're just ticking those boxes for the signs to move to one nap.
Dr Fallon (47:49)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (48:08)
Bedtime pushing later, the second nap taking longer to settle. she's, did she say waking overnight or have I just made that up? Anyway, there's at least two things, at least two, and you don't have to tick all of them, but it's been going on for the last few weeks. So again, what you have done is you've noticed these changes and you've observed them for at least a week. So you've done the right thing. We know that they're not going away.
Dr Fallon (48:20)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (48:38)
So it's not like that she's just, she's going to come down with a bug or it was just a bumpy patch or a rough patch. No, it's persisting. So we can be quite confident therefore that it's okay to move her to one nap a day. So what you describe Olivia with your worries about moving to one nap being that she's going to be quite tired in the morning is
Dr Fallon (48:39)
Hmm.
Yeah, I agree.
Dr Laura (49:04)
just incredibly common. And I'm sure lots of people listening are really pleased that you raised that because that is one of the reasons why many of us parents do delay moving to just one nap because we think, well, they go to sleep so quickly for that first nap. How on earth are we going to encourage them to stay awake a little bit longer? But it does happen. It will happen. And it will take around about a week.
for your baby to get used to having a longer awake period in the morning. So it's unlikely that you're going to be able to move her immediately to the one nap she's having in the middle of the day. She just won't manage it. She's currently going to sleep easily at 9.30. So it might be that you're just trying your best to get her as close to, you know, even 11. And it's as close to 11 as you can get. So it might be that initially you only get her until 10.30.
or even 10. And then you just give her the combined nap duration, like we spoke about earlier. And then you may need to give her a little power nap in the afternoon just to break up that very long wake period before bed. And I know Fala and you and I have differing views about power naps. So perhaps you can come in in a moment around that. But it may be useful, may not be useful, but every day
Dr Fallon (50:01)
Mmm.
You
Yeah.
Dr Laura (50:28)
then just work on moving that nap even five or 10 minutes later. And after around a week, it will be where you want it. And if you had been having a power nap, the need for that will fall away. What would you add?
Dr Fallon (50:44)
think that's such a lovely answer,
Laura. I would only add that since Olivia has said the second nap is what's pushing bedtime later, she might be kind of sensitive to a power nap, but she might be, you know, some of these babies slash toddlers are just so sensitive to even a five minute power nap. If you think that's the case, you could trial letting that nap, so instead of going for an hour and a half total,
Dr Laura (50:57)
yeah.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (51:08)
maybe it's for the first few days you let it be an hour 45 or even two hours just to help her get through to bedtime without needing that power nap and then what you'll probably quickly find is that you need to trim down that day nap because bedtime is then starting to get a bit later as she's adjusting to it so it's just another way of thinking about it if you think that that power nap might be yeah too too much of an influence on the bedtime
Dr Laura (51:15)
Mmm.
That's a good idea.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (51:32)
I love these questions that parents send in. They're so good. And I hope that, yeah, everyone listening gets something out of hearing these answers.
Dr Laura (51:36)
Yeah, they are.
It's always a nice way for us to gear up for the week as well, Fallon, I feel. We kind of get, we get into the weeds. Yeah, we are. And then we're like, yeah, good. I think I've got like six clients tomorrow, maybe seven the next day. And I'm like cracking my knuckles. Yes, I'm all ready to go now.
Dr Fallon (51:44)
Yeah, that warm up, do some stretches.
Yes, it's like after that Christmas break, you forget what you even do. You know, like everyone has that you sit back down at your desk and you're like, what do do here again? So yeah, this is a good warmup for us. Get the neural connections firing again.
Dr Laura (52:07)
Yeah.
Okay, now is it my turn? I've lost track. Am I reading out this? Yeah. Okay.
Dr Fallon (52:13)
I think so, I always forget, but yeah,
I think you're reading out Alex.
Dr Laura (52:17)
Okay, so our last question is from Alex and Alex writes, Sombell was amazing to get my then four month old to nap during the day using the quick fade approach. However, it's kind of fallen over now. And I think that my six month old wants to drop a nap. Alex writes that for the last one to two weeks, her baby has been refusing the middle of the day nap, having false starts at the start of the night.
having one to two wakes overnight after previously sleeping through and also waking earlier for the day. And tick, tick, tick. This is the one that I was confusing the last one with because I think I'm sure one of them is ticking all of the boxes and it's Alex's baby. Yeah. And Alex says that her baby is also sometimes getting dozy on the breast. So Alex has a number of questions and I'll just read them out one at a time.
Dr Fallon (52:49)
Tick tick tick. Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (53:12)
So Alex's first question is, how much can a baby's sleep need change at once? For example, if her baby had had a 13 and a half hour sleep need and it's dropped to 12, would that be too much? She is thinking that perhaps her baby's sleep needs were 13 and a half hours and perhaps they're just 13 hours, but with the schedule that she's using for 13 hours, they're still having the early wakes and false starts.
So, you know, I guess she's wondering whether dropping down to 12 hours is a lot. What do you think, Ferlyn?
Dr Fallon (53:49)
No, look,
I think sometimes it is a really gradual decline in sleep needs. And then other times it's like, it just falls off a cliff. I've talked about that before as well. So absolutely could have dropped to being a 12 hour sleep need. It's perfectly fine if it has. think Alex, don't second guess yourself. Just look at that diary, look at the average and that is what it is.
Dr Laura (53:59)
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (54:13)
I think a lot of parents look at the average and they go, but sometimes they do, or sometimes they do that. Maybe it's better to have more. You've got to look at that average. They're going to have days where they exceed the average. They're to have days where they're under that average. That's why we look at the average because that tells us, you on average, what they actually need. And we can start to smooth out the bumps and the highs and the lows and things like that. so yeah, totally fine. It might've dropped to 12 hours. That's perfectly fine. When you cater to 12 hours, things are likely to improve.
Dr Laura (54:25)
Mm-hmm. Yes.
Dr Fallon (54:41)
stop getting the false starts, the night wakes should reduce. So yeah, you can have confidence in that.
Dr Laura (54:44)
Yeah.
And like we often say, Fallon, can, you once you have got the daily rhythm sorted and your baby is sleeping well, you can always offer them a little bit more. We always say just offer them a little bit more, test it out, but meet them where they're at now. Like, yeah, take the guesswork out of it. Don't second guess yourself, Alex. Just work out the average for now and run with it.
Dr Fallon (54:55)
Yeah, test it out.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (55:06)
Alex's next question is what should dropping a nap look like overall? Will they go straight to two naps or will there be a wonky transition?
Dr Fallon (55:14)
I'd say there'll
be a wonky transition. think for most babies, it's a little bit of a strange time where they kind of need three and they kind of need two. but look, usually what I would say to families is just go to two naps, just work out what those two, how long are they going to be? What, what's going to their sleep need? Roughly what time are you going to aim for those naps? And then just go for it. Try and do it as consistently as you can. You might have some weird days that don't quite go to plan.
Dr Laura (55:22)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (55:42)
Don't beat yourself up over it, just try again the next day and it will get easier and easier the more you practice it. Yeah.
Dr Laura (55:46)
Hmm.
Yeah, good.
And Alex says, should I be timing the length of her feeds to pop her off before she goes to sleep? Alex says she tends to fade away. So it's hard to pinpoint when exactly to stop the feed.
Dr Fallon (56:06)
Yeah, it's, find feeding questions really hard to answer in the context of a podcast episode, because I just think there can be so much going on. don't know how often this baby is fed or when they're fed. but I think what Alex is wondering is like, she's wanting to stop her from falling asleep during feeds. Should she be timing it to stop it? What should she do? I mean, for starters, I would be saying she's six months of age.
Dr Laura (56:14)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (56:31)
aiming for roughly a feed, play, sleep, repeat type rhythm to the day with an extra feed before bedtime in the evenings. That can be a really good way to avoid the drifting off to sleep during a feed. Otherwise, I would just be looking for, you know, when does she start to close her, is it girl or boy, I've forgotten now. When do they start to close their eyes? When do they start to suckle differently or do just those little delicate ticklish?
Dr Laura (56:36)
Mmm.
Yeah.
I don't know.
Dr Fallon (57:01)
suckles that don't really draw a lot of milk. I'd be looking for that point and taking her off then.
Dr Laura (57:01)
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah, I think that's a great answer, Fallon. And mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (57:11)
and I'll just add, if you're talking
about overnight feeds though, Alex, if you're wanting to stop her feeding back to sleep during the night, that's when you could just do a quick nappy change after the feed. Cause it can be so hard to tell in the dark too. Are they awake? Are they asleep? You could do a quick nappy change and then pop them down. If that's one of your things that you're working on, that's an option.
Dr Laura (57:22)
yes. Yeah, good point.
Yes. Yeah,
or burping them, anything to kind of rouse them a little bit before you put them down so that they're aware that they're going into the cot. Okay, and Alex, fourth question says that her baby can wake up 15 minutes to 30 minutes before the morning wake up time of 6.45. And Alex describes that she goes in, pops the dummy back in, and then comes
Dr Fallon (57:33)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (57:57)
back to pick her baby up at 6.45 in the morning. She describes that her baby doesn't always go back to sleep in that 15 to 30 minutes. And she wants to know, is that the best approach just to put the dummy back in and walk out again?
Dr Fallon (58:11)
Yeah, it might be if so, if a baby is waking up before the wake up time you want, generally, I would say, keep it really dark, really quiet, you know, don't try and do anything fun or exciting, even don't offer the feed straight away if they're not particularly looking for it. you just want to show their circadian rhythm that nope, it's at, you know, this wake up time, 6 45 AM. That's when we turn on the lights, we engage, we have fun, teaches the circadian rhythm. That's when they should be waking up.
Dr Laura (58:38)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (58:40)
So yes, what Alex is doing is fine, but if it's happening really regularly that she's waking before that wake up time, maybe the daily rhythm isn't quite fitted to her sleep needs. And so that could be worth considering that maybe we need to tweak that daily rhythm a little bit so that she's waking up at the time she should be.
Dr Laura (58:51)
Mm-hmm.
And I think probably by moving to two naps. Oh, hang on. Yes, because she's dropping a nap. getting a bit confused. You can tell it's the first day back. By moving down to the two naps, you may find that she actually can just sleep in until 6.45 now. That's often one of those things that we see the early rising when they previously have been able to sleep through.
Dr Fallon (59:10)
Mm.
Mm.
Yeah.
Mm.
Dr Laura (59:27)
Um, once we move to a, um, fewer naps during the day, then they can maintain their sleep until morning again. But you know, if you have to end up just making bed, uh, wake up time six 30, so be it. Um, the, what sometimes can happen is that just as babies get older and louder, like we've spoken about earlier in the podcast, they are less inclined to just lie happily in bed for up to 30 minutes in the morning when they're already awake because
Dr Fallon (59:39)
Yeah. Yep.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (59:54)
Once their language skills really get on board and they want to chat and play and crawl and climb and everything else that bigger babies do and toddlers do, they're not necessarily going to be as tolerant and as compliant as we would want them to be at the hour of the morning.
Dr Fallon (1:00:11)
Yeah, yep. Yeah, exactly right. Excellent. Well, we have had some fantastic questions today. I hope all the parents listening in have found it really, really helpful and useful. And I'm just so excited to kick off what is going to be a huge year for us. have some really cool stuff planned. We're growing our team and it's going to be all sorts of exciting things happening that we've just been talking about this morning as we prepared for this, this episode.
Dr Laura (1:00:32)
Ha ha!
Dr Fallon (1:00:37)
Um, if you love what we do, we would love it if you bought us a coffee and I have to apologize. Laura knows I completely stuffed this up. When I set up this whole buy us a coffee thing, I didn't know what the heck I was doing and it was set to say like spend $25 or $50 instead of like buy a coffee, like for $5, which is a little bit more reasonable. So I apologize if anyone went there and thought, Oh yeah, I'll go buy them a coffee. And then when, Oh my God, they're asking for 25 or $50.
Dr Laura (1:00:50)
You
Right at Christmas time.
Dr Fallon (1:01:06)
That's just me being, yeah, being stupid
and not setting things up properly. You now actually can buy us a coffee for five bucks each, which is a bit more reasonable. so yeah, if you love what we do and want to say thanks for the help we've provided your family, you absolutely can buy us a coffee or two if you want to. We totally appreciate that. It makes a big difference to us and it's just so lovely when we get those coming through. I'll pop a link in the show notes for that one.
Dr Laura (1:01:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:01:34)
and also if you love what we do and want to get the message out there, leaving a review is hugely helpful. Tap the five stars button on whatever app you're listening on. or jump on our Google profile for infant sleep Australia. leave us a Google review. It's a really great way to let people know what you thought of us. And hopefully it's a five star review cause you love us.
Dr Laura (1:01:54)
Hehehehehe
Dr Fallon (1:01:56)
If you need
help with sleep or settling and you have a baby or a toddler, Sombelle is an amazing resource. We are seeing parents having fantastic progress all the time. And you'll know, you'll join knowing that you can always book a coaching call if you do need that intense one-on-one support. I've got some appointments available. think Lori, you've got a few available this month as well. We're here to support you. So if you need that one-on-one care, then yeah, we're here for that. and if you haven't hit subscribe to the podcast, please do that as well.
Dr Laura (1:02:16)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (1:02:25)
I think that's all I've got to say for the week. And I guess we'll just be back next Monday with another new episode. So if you've got questions and you remember, send those through to us. If there's a topic you'd really like us to pick apart in more detail, I'd love to hear that too. Off on Monday morning, we're like, what are we going to talk about? We're trying to think up something. So if there's something you'd love us to talk about, yeah, let us know. But yeah, that's all from us. So take good care and we'll see you next week.
Dr Laura (1:02:28)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks everyone, bye bye.
