Dr Fallon (00:37)
Do toddlers who sleep through the night have interrupted sleep after a new baby arrives? And if so, how can I prevent this? What about moving house with my toddler? How do I avoid hiccups with their sleep during such a big change? My toddler has never fallen asleep without me there to settle them and now they're starting childcare. How can I prepare them for this? These are just some of the topics we've been asked to address on the podcast and they all speak to a common theme, toddlers.
We love toddlers. They're curious little scientists trying to work out how the world works. And when their world suddenly shifts, they can find it really tough. Today on Brand New Little People, we discuss how you can help your toddler adjust to big life changes with a specific focus on protecting their sleep.
Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast companion to the Sombelle pediatric sleep programs created by us.
I'm Dr. Fallon Cook and I'm here with Dr. Laura Conway. are PhDs and sleep practitioners and co-directors of Infant Sleep Australia. Laura, how are you going? It's been a couple of weeks since our last episode.
Dr Laura (02:03)
Yes, it sure has. I again, like last time, when we didn't record a podcast on Monday, I felt all out of sorts. Didn't know what day it was. This really works as a signpost for me recording our podcast on a Monday. And when we don't do it, I'm just forever thinking what day are we? Because I can't just count back in my mind when we last recorded the podcast. So it's good to be back and to welcome all our new members. We've had many, many people join.
Dr Fallon (02:11)
Hahaha
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Laura (02:30)
over the last couple of weeks and we're delighted to have you on board. And yeah, we have been flooded with questions, Fallon.
Dr Fallon (02:39)
Yeah, we have. There are so many parent questions today. It really is quite wild. So we're going to try and get through quite a lot of them. one thing I did on Instagram the other day was I posted a little story saying, Hey guys, I'm working on our podcast content. If you've got any ideas for what you want to hear about or learn about on the podcast, let me know. We had a really good response. So lots of replies.
and one of them, well, more than one of them, think there were several were really around like toddlers and there was that common theme of like, when this big event happens in their life, what do I do? You know, whether it's bringing home a new baby or they're off to childcare or moving house is really common too. in the toddler years and it can really throw sleep around. So I thought that would be a really.
a good topic to address and we've been saying lately too we need a few more episodes about the little toddlers because we do have a lot of members of the toddler program but often it's you we're really focusing on the babies that's where we get most of the questions so it's going to be nice this week to kind of dive into that a bit. Did you go through any big kind of life changes when your little ones were toddlers Laura? Did you sort of have to move house or obviously you had to bring home a second baby at some point too?
Dr Laura (03:31)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Yes, brought home the second baby and we moved
house and we had trips back to the UK for big events that were happening overseas. So yeah, there were quite a few things when my first one was a toddler and then also once she was a preschooler, but then baby number two obviously grew into a toddler himself. So yes, there were quite a few changes and yeah, sleep did get rocky.
Dr Fallon (04:00)
Yeah
Hmm.
Dr Laura (04:20)
for both of them for those periods of time. It's all a little bit of a blur now. just kind of, sometimes you're just treading water and just ploughing through it at the time thinking this isn't going to end. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (04:24)
Mmm.
Waiting for them to grow. Yeah.
It's all going to get easier at some point. Yeah. I remember my eldest just really did not like it when I bought home our second baby. it's just, it's such a huge adjustment for them. cannot prepare them to suddenly have your attention divided between them and another baby, no matter how hard you try, you know, it's not something I can be prepared for.
Dr Laura (04:37)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (04:57)
and it can just feel like a huge shift in their world. And I think for a lot of toddlers, they then start to think, well, yeah, I've been sleeping through the night, but you know, I reckon mom and dad aren't that busy at 2am. I'm just going to call out and see if they're around and maybe I'll have some cuddles or you know what I haven't had in a while? A night feed. Yeah.
Dr Laura (05:00)
Yeah.
yeah yeah let's bring that back let's bring that back put a petition in
Dr Fallon (05:24)
Yes.
So yeah, sleep can definitely change, but try not to panic because there are ways to keep it on track. And what I wanted to do today is sort of go through some of our tips for when there are these kind of really big shifts. And I think for a lot of kids right now too, a lot of toddlers are heading off to childcare, which is another big change. But let's talk through some of the things that we would generally be suggesting to families in the clinic. And I know a really big one Laura is that we often suggest that
Dr Laura (05:28)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (05:54)
you know, there are going to be things you can't control it. Yes, you're in a new bedroom or yep, you know, you're off to childcare now, but keep the things familiar that you can keep familiar. So, you know, if you usually have dinner together in the evening and you usually have a particular bedtime routine, this is not the time to throw that out the window and do something different. Really be trying to show your child that even though there's these very unfamiliar things going on in your world, we are still going to keep some of these things that you're used to.
Dr Laura (06:14)
No.
Dr Fallon (06:23)
in place. It's incredibly powerful, just gives them that sense of okay when when all of that other stuff is chaos there are these predictable things that you know I can rely on happening.
Dr Laura (06:35)
Yeah, and the evening time bedtime routine can be a safe haven for your toddler when they are dealing with all the emotional and physical upheaval of new events and new situations in their environment. So in the same way I was just describing having this podcast as my weekly signpost that the week has started, thinking about the bedtime routine as a signpost to your toddler that
Dr Fallon (06:48)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (07:05)
that's right, these things are going to happen in the same order. Despite all the other changes going on in their life, you know that there's going to be a bath, a story, massage, whatever it is that you have in the bedtime routine, that even though you're somewhere different, for example, these things are the same. And it can be really grounding for your toddler that they can feel that safety.
in the familiarity of that routine. And they can really draw comfort from that. And it can help calm their little nervous systems as well that might be running at 100 miles an hour.
Dr Fallon (07:36)
Mmm.
Yes.
Yeah. And I think let them take it at their pace. If they've maybe just come home from childcare and they're massively overstimulated and really super physically tired. You might need to allow a bit of extra time to get through your routine so that, you go at a slower pace for them rather than trying to rush it to happen all at the same usual time. Just give them a little bit more time to work through it. And I think as well, just know that your toddler might
Dr Laura (08:01)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (08:13)
kind of throw a few hand grenades in there. Like when everything in their world, well, a lot of things in their world are changing, often they want to test out, are things at home also going to change? So you might find it the bedtime routine. They're like, no, I want to have 50 books and three cups of milk and this and this and this. And they're kind of testing out like how predictable is this routine? How solid, how reliable, you know, can I really trust that at home things are going to be similar?
Dr Laura (08:24)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (08:41)
and they're trying to test you, but I think a lot of parents go, it's been really hard on them. There's been this big change. Let's give them. You know, extra milk, extra stories, extra things. And we think we're being kind, but actually the, you're then sort of telling your child, well, things are changing here too. Everything's different now. And that can be kind of unsettling. So, try to just keep that. No, we only do two, two books and we're just having the two books tonight. You know, like really keep that on track. So you're showing them.
Dr Laura (08:49)
Yes.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (09:09)
Yeah, everything else is a little different, but we are steady. We just do things the same way. And that's actually going to be better for your child than throwing in random extra activities and things at bedtime.
Dr Laura (09:13)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah,
absolutely. Think of them as kind of feeling around trying to find where the edges of the boundaries are for bedtime. And if you are adding more and more flexibility, they're going to keep on pushing, going, well, where are the edges? And it can be more unsettling for them when they're not coming, they're not eventually feeling those edges. And then you can start to find that bedtime really then pushes out.
Dr Fallon (09:27)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (09:46)
and their behaviour might become more more dysregulated because they're not finding the boundaries that can help them feel contained when they're otherwise quite overstimulated.
Dr Fallon (09:55)
Mmm.
Yeah, absolutely. I think let's move on to moving house now, cause this one's a really big one because you're taking a toddler from an environment they're to and suddenly they're somewhere, somewhere completely different. can be very unsettling. and I moved house when my little ones were little. think I've done it a few times actually now I think about it. and what I would say is that when you move house, your priority number one is getting your toddler set up.
Dr Laura (10:02)
Mmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (10:26)
and organize you forget about your own bed, your mattress can just go on the floor. You know, it doesn't matter if you haven't unpacked all the plates and cups and whatever else make your number one priority to have, I would say have a box that is just for your toddlers, familiar things, things you know, they're going to need that first night. So definitely, you know, bedding is a big one. Don't put clean dooners on, don't get new bedding. Just take the same familiar bedding. Make sure their mattress and their bed frame or their cot is, you know, somewhere at the,
Dr Laura (10:30)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (10:55)
the doors of the truck. you just get it straight off that truck and you go set it up. But in that box, you know, have their comforter, their dummies, their, you know, the nightlight, the white noise machine, the block out blinds, anything that's going to make their new room feel like their room have that ready to go. And as soon as you get there, just go set that up first priority. And then they've got their space and talk to them about it. Say, Hey, remember how you had, you know,
Dr Laura (10:57)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (11:22)
this blanket on, you know, that bed or this toy over there. Look how we've set this up. We've got it in the same place. It's still there for you because if your toddler can sleep well on that first night, you're going to sleep well. And if you're moving house, you're exhausted. So yeah, definitely. Yeah. Be thinking about that little hack.
Dr Laura (11:34)
Yes. Yes.
And you may want to think about having a mattress on the floor in the room with the toddler on the first night, if you feel like they're going to need more support in a totally new space. And thinking about just the senses, what can your toddler see? What can they smell? What can they hear? What can they touch and or taste? mean, that would be kind of water or milk. And just thinking what are those things in their current bedroom? And then how can you replicate them?
Dr Fallon (11:50)
Mm.
Dr Laura (12:10)
in their new bedroom and thinking about the lighting might be a bit different. So getting down on their level with the night light on or the light and just checking that there's no shadows that they, a toddler with an overactive imagination might be worried about. Just really getting to their level and just thinking about what can you smell? What can you see? What can you hear? Because that's going to help you understand what their experience is.
Dr Fallon (12:26)
Hmm.
Yeah
Yes.
And be really patient. think most toddlers are going to need a little bit more support to fall asleep, a bit more of your presence. Or like you said, Laura, sometimes just camping in their room for the first couple of nights, just gives them that bit more reassurance that things are okay. And it usually doesn't mean that you're in there forever. You're just helping them kind of build their confidence and learn that that's home. Also, in moving houses, often lots more dangerous things lying around. So do consider a safety gate on their new bedroom door so they're not off wandering around. You're going to be exceptionally tired and you might sleep more deeply
Dr Laura (12:50)
Mm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (13:10)
than you normally do. So if they do get up, you really want to hear them. So yeah, have a safety gate on the door and then you know that they're contained and they can't get into any mischief.
Dr Laura (13:15)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. And if you don't like using safety
gates or for whatever reason you can't use one, then think about getting one of those little baby balls that have got a rattley ball inside of them. Have you seen those, Fallon? And you can put one just outside the door so that if they do come out of their bedroom, they kick the ball, it makes a rattling sound and then that can rouse you. That's another helpful tip one family gave me in clinic recently. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (13:32)
No.
Yeah. that's cool. That's a good idea. Awesome.
And then probably the other really big change. I know I talk about this with families all the time in the clinic and coaching calls is bringing a new baby home. Like I saying earlier, it's a huge, huge shift. But I think especially if you've got some planning time before you bring the baby home.
Dr Laura (14:00)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (14:11)
You can really kind of smooth that as much as you can. You can smooth it a little bit by bringing in an activity with your toddler before you have your new baby. That is just you and your toddler and that time is protected even when the baby gets home. So the most common strategy we suggest for this is something we call special play. It could be that whilst you're pregnant every morning after brekkie you say, Hey, let's go do special play. And it's 10 or 15 minutes.
Dr Laura (14:26)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (14:39)
you know, in a dedicated space, could be their bedroom where your child, your toddler leads the play and you just follow them. You don't direct it at all, you're just entirely immersed in that play for 10 or 15 minutes with no interruption at all. So you might need a partner or another person to kind of protect your time during that, to protect the space from other children, for example. If you do that every day and it becomes part of the daily rhythm, then after you bring home that newborn baby,
Dr Laura (14:56)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (15:07)
You just need to protect that time. You can't protect the whole day. You're going to be busy with that baby. But maybe it's that your partner takes the baby for 10 or 15 minutes while after breakfast you keep doing your special play with your toddler. It's really important because then your toddler's realizing, my time's important too. My connection with mom or with dad is important too.
Dr Laura (15:18)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (15:29)
And it's much easier to protect 10 or 15 minutes from disruptions than it is to, you know, protect long swathes of time. And often once they get that fill of your dedicated attention in that 10 or 15 minutes, they're as rain for the rest of the day. And don't mind so much when you've got your hands full and you can't quickly get to, you know, whatever it is they're wanting you to do. Um, and that can actually flow onto reducing night wakes. They're less likely to wake up at 2am and think, Hey, I wonder what's mum up to right now.
Dr Laura (15:35)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Yes,
I think that's a really good idea Fallon and for the parents, know, whilst you are pregnant with the second baby and your third baby and you're introducing this special play, do heed Fallon's advice there about just doing, you know, 10 minutes or so a special play. Don't be thinking I'm going to do an hour because then when the new baby comes in, you can't give them the hour.
Dr Fallon (16:00)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (16:24)
They might then feel that something has been taken away from them. What we want to be doing is giving them a short burst of time that you're going to be able to protect when the new baby comes as well. So be mindful that it's just a short period of time that's completely focused on your toddler. You could also, at other points during the day, if you go to the library, there are many books about what it's like to become a big sibling, big brother or sister.
Dr Fallon (16:35)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (16:52)
and be reading those books to your toddler to prepare them as well for the imminent arrival of their new baby sibling. And there's some really beautiful picture books out there and I'm sure your local librarian would be able to help you. And just as much preparation as you can is, you know, is always good. So yeah, special play and then having some
Dr Fallon (17:00)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (17:22)
book reading time with them as well about what it may look like when the baby comes home. It just means that you're managing their expectations a little bit and your own.
Dr Fallon (17:28)
Yeah
Yeah, exactly. You know, Laura, before this episode, I was like, I'll just go and check which part of the Somba or toddler program we've got the special play instructions in because I'll direct parents listening to that lesson. So you can actually go and download them and I couldn't find them. And I don't know if it's in there. I think maybe we, we, we've got it all written like it's there in our resources. It's there, but I couldn't find it in the program. So I'm to go and have a really good hunt later, but
Dr Laura (17:42)
yeah.
we'll have to edit.
Dr Fallon (17:59)
I don't think it's in there. So I think we add, add in a lesson on how to do special play and also something called special talk, which is kind of the best friend of special play. because yeah, we've got a great handout on that that you can download and start to practice that with your toddler. yeah, we should definitely, get that into some bowels. So do keep an eye out for that one.
Dr Laura (18:09)
Yes.
Yeah.
Good.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (18:21)
And before we answer parent questions, I just want to reiterate that, you know, when your toddler does go through a really big change, whether it's one of the changes we've talked about today or something entirely different, just think of your role as being that one constant thing in their life. Try to just maintain things. The things you can control, keep them really similar and predictable. But know that toddlers are really resilient. They can cope with big changes. They just need to know that you're going to be there to support them throughout it.
They might get really cranky, they could be all out of sorts. It's normal, there's no need to panic. Just be that calm, steady presence and they will get through it.
Dr Laura (18:53)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's really good advice Fallon. So good luck toddler parents and good luck at the baby parents who will be heading into the toddler years inevitably.
Dr Fallon (19:04)
Yeah.
Yes, you might have to come back to this episode. Yeah.
Amazing. So we had 18 questions come through from parents in the last couple of weeks, because of course we took last week off. So there is just so much to get through. So what we have had to do is we have had to drastically trim each of these questions. So if you hear your question read out and it sounds a little different, a little briefer than the one you sent through.
just know that we're doing our absolute best. We didn't want to have anyone to miss out. So we've just had to make them all really super brief. And thank you so much to the parents who managed to send in quite short questions. It definitely helps. If your question is a bit more complicated than how we describe it and there's other factors going on, please book a coaching call. Because often with those really complicated, longer questions, we really need to actually assess your child and get a sense of their unique sleep needs.
do a bit of one-on-one work. So you do have that option. There's lots of coaching calls still left next week, I think actually. So yeah, if you remember, you have the option of booking one of those. Yeah, yeah, go for it.
Dr Laura (20:13)
it.
So shall I kick off, Alan? Yeah,
okay. So we had a question from Johnson and Naomi, and they say that their nine month old self settles and sleeps for 11 and a half hours total. They have nine and a half hours overnight and two naps during the day. Now they describe that the usual bedtime is quite late, 10.30 PM until 8 AM in the morning, but some days,
their baby wakes much earlier between 6.30 and 7.30 and just won't resettle. So this really disrupts the rest of the daily schedule that they have. So Johnson and Naomi asked, should we stick to the same schedule when she wakes early for the day, or should we make some adjustments? They said that when they try to stick to the same schedule, she gets really cranky and then she falls asleep in the car or the pram.
making it quite hard to function during the day.
Dr Fallon (21:19)
Yeah, definitely have a close look at that daily rhythm. I agree if they suddenly do something different and wake really early, it can make the day really, really hard.
Dr Laura (21:26)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (21:28)
11 and a half hours, it's not a big sleep need is it? It's pretty low. So just make sure those naps are, know, maximum two hours. So that's fitting within that kind of 11 and a half hour window. And I would say decide on, it sounds like quite a late bedtime and a long sleep in, and it might not be working for your baby. So if you're happier to have an earlier bedtime, you could gradually bring bedtime a little bit earlier.
Dr Laura (21:31)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (21:53)
Yeah, I'd be thinking, you know, so what have we got nine and a half hours overnight? It might be that you start to work towards a 9pm bedtime and a 6.30am wake up. And then you gradually shuffling that along every few days. Even if, you know, it's quite an early wake up and you're not loving that. Yeah, I would say she might be really cranky during the daytime, but generally when we change the circadian rhythm around a little bit, they adapt to it. And once they adapt to it, they're happily sailing through the day.
Dr Laura (22:01)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (22:23)
But what would you add to that, Laura?
Dr Laura (22:25)
Yeah, I would say that what you're probably beginning to see is that your baby is starting to fall into a more typical wake up time for babies this age. And an 8am wake up is more typical for older children and adults. So if your baby is beginning to wake up at six between 6.30 and 7.30, it's probably
Dr Fallon (22:37)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (22:53)
her body clock really starting to take a bit more control now that she's nine months old. And as much as you might like to have that 8am wake up, it might no longer be suiting your baby. And if it's beginning to be more frequent than I would just be doing as you suggest, Valen just starting to, you know, if she's waking up at 730, then that night put her to bed.
Dr Fallon (22:57)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (23:17)
a bit earlier, much earlier than your current 10.30 bedtime, because she won't make it until 10.30. And then the next day, make sure that she's up by 7.30 again, and you could just slowly bring it back. If it's only every now and again, Johnson and Naomi, and you're not seeing that it's a big change in her daily rhythm, then it may be that you have to give her a little power nap later on in the afternoon just to get her through until 10.30.
Dr Fallon (23:23)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (23:46)
So really you need to be looking at the overall patterns. Is she really just starting to shift to an early riser, in which case do as Fallon says, and we just have to make that accept that that's what her body clock wants to do. But if it's only every now and again, I would just be introducing a little power nap just to get her through until that late bedtime that you would prefer to keep for her.
Dr Fallon (24:07)
Very good. All right, Maddie emailed in and says my 13 month old dropped to one nap handling it well with 11 and a half hours total sleep. She's having an hour and a half day nap and about 10 hours overnight. Maddie says he fights bedtime bouncing in his cot after being cuddly during books. How can I help him settle? Separation anxiety might be a factor as I've returned to work.
Dr Laura (24:33)
okay. So, similar to Johnson and Naomi's baby, it's a relatively low sleep need, but your toddler is just on the one nap. I would be thinking about what we were just discussing actually with changes that can happen in toddlers' lives. So, Maddy, if you've just returned to work, that's going to be a big change for your toddler.
Dr Fallon (24:42)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (25:02)
And you may want to be thinking about introducing some special play, one-on-one time with your toddler at some point, either perhaps after breakfast or when you get home from work, just to help kind of fill their connection cup or bucket with you. Because one of the things might be happening is that your toddler actually just wants to spend a bit more time with you when you're getting home from work.
Dr Fallon (25:21)
Mm.
Dr Laura (25:30)
And that's causing them to fight bedtime. So we want to be giving your toddler as much attention as possible before bedtime to help them feel really connected with you. The other thing you could think about doing is if your toddler is finding it hard to of calm his body is introduce some of those bedtime games, which involve giving deep
Dr Fallon (25:45)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (25:58)
So like a deep pressure massage or the bedtime sillies game that we describe in the toddler program, where they can feel lovely for your toddler to be wrapped up like a burrito or to have the kind of body scan as you squeeze their little limbs. But that triggers a calming response in them. And whilst it feels like a game to them,
unbeknownst to them, it can be triggering a calming response. And you might find that that helps calm your little one so that he stops fighting bedtime once he goes down into his cot. Do you have anything to add, Fallon?
Dr Fallon (26:38)
Only that if you think there's separation anxiety, the toddler program has lots of different selling strategies for where that's the case. So yeah, have a read through those be super consistent. Yeah, as we described earlier. Yeah, good.
Dr Laura (26:53)
Great.
So our next question is also a toddler question from Charlotte. And she says that my 14 month old naps once or twice a day for 30 minutes, either at daycare or at home. She falls asleep easily at bedtime, but wakes multiple times and overnight starting before midnight. And Charlotte asks, could overtiredness cause these night wakings?
Dr Fallon (27:18)
No, no, it won't. I just wouldn't be offering two naps. So as, as they enter toddlerhood, or just as babies get older, they need longer amount of time to build up sleep drive. So those days where she's having two naps are probably just meaning that by bedtime, that sleep drive is a little low. And she just hasn't had quite enough time. So it can even just be a really short nap and it's enough to just take the edge off that sleep pressure and it ruins the night.
Dr Laura (27:24)
Mm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (27:47)
Yeah, it sounds like you're quite a few wakes overnight. So I would look at moving to one nap, not offering that second one. It's going to be tough for a few days, but her circadian rhythm will figure out, okay, if I have a terrible night, I can't play catch up by having a second nap. And that will help to reduce those nights. Just check in on sleep needs as well and make sure that that daily rhythm is actually catering to the average amount of sleep that she's having.
each day. If you're offering more opportunity to sleep than what she needs, she'll just keep waking up. And of course, just checking in on the settling. Is she needing a lot of help to get to sleep? And is that one of the factors that's contributing to those overnight wakes?
Dr Laura (28:26)
Mm. Awesome. Yeah, I don't think I've got anything to add to that. I think that's great, Fallon.
Dr Fallon (28:32)
Cool, all right, I'll read out a question from Costa and Jess. They say, baby settles in about five to 15 minutes when put down awake, but bangs his head on the cot side, sometimes hard enough to cry. Is this a self-settling strategy? Should we put padding around the cot to prevent injury?
Dr Laura (28:36)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Great question. General rule of thumb is we don't want to put padding in a cot. So any of those cot bumpers are a SIDS risk. So we want to keep the airflow unimpeded. So general rule is that you don't put pads around the cot. What we generally see is that children who do bang their heads very rarely
Dr Fallon (29:04)
Mm.
Dr Laura (29:22)
bang their heads enough to cause injury. And it's normally a self-limiting behavior that eventually babies grow out of. If you are really concerned and you do feel that your baby is hurting themselves, then I would make an appointment with your GP and go and discuss it with them. They might suggest that it's worth doing some more exploration with a sleep physician, for example.
In general, what we find is that these kind of sleep related rhythmic movements are very common in infancy. Actually nearly 60 % of nine months old babies do use some form of rhythmic movement and that can be body rocking, getting up on their haunches and rocking side to side, yeah, banging their legs up and down. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (30:10)
The head side to side.
Yeah, the whale legs. Love it.
Whale tail.
Dr Laura (30:19)
right. And
so it's a very common sleep behavior, and it really dramatically reduces as babies get older. So, you know, by the time your baby is in their toddler years, there's only about a third of them are going to be using that kind of behavior. And by the time they start school, hardly any children are using these behaviors. So I guess Kostya and Jess,
Dr Fallon (30:30)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (30:47)
know that mostly these sleep-related rhythmic movements have nothing to worry about. We only start to consider them as a disorder, or being abnormal if the movements are interrupting your baby's sleep, or you're beginning to see impairments and how they function during the day, or there's a real risk of injury. So if they're not ticking those boxes, I wouldn't be worrying about it.
Dr Fallon (31:07)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (31:14)
Generally, know that in the longer email, Costa and Jess said, it's not every night that their baby does this. you know, within five or 15 minutes for them to fall asleep, that is actually within the normal length of time that we would see these movements for.
Dr Fallon (31:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah,
if your baby or toddler is doing these things and it's causing them, you know, an injury, they've got bruising all over their forehead. Definitely speak to your GP. I think probably a developmental and behavioral pediatrician, I think is usually the first port of call just to check in on other aspects of the development. So if you are worried about that behavior, never hurts to get it checked out.
Dr Laura (31:49)
All right, so Carmen has written in and she says, we're unsure of our two year old sleep needs because daycare doesn't track it well. So Carmen says, should we base it on his home sleep, which is between 10 and 12 hours? Do we have any recommendations to help?
Dr Fallon (32:09)
Yeah, I think based it on the sleep at home, but you want to be more specific than 10 to 12 hours. Sometimes I see parents have this kind of range where they're loosely aiming, but if it is 10 hours, not 12, you're offering an extra whole two hours of sleep they might not need. So you're probably going to get wakeups and tricky settling. Um, so
Dr Laura (32:25)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (32:27)
Find out what the average is at home based on that, but just have a chat with daycare. Make sure your child's not doing something completely different like napping for three hours or something in the middle of the day or having multiple naps when they normally only have one because that could throw out the measurements that you're taking at home. Yeah.
Dr Laura (32:33)
Hmm.
Yeah. Good!
Dr Fallon (32:46)
And Jade wrote in, she asks, should I move my 10 month old, she calls this one the non unicorn sleeper in with my four year old who is a unicorn sleeper. So I think we've got a 10 month old not sleeping so great and a four year old who's a wonderful sleeper. So she's wondering about, should she put them in a room together? She says the 10 month old protest bedtime wakes three or four times overnight and resettles loudly. So she's wondering, should I wait until he drops his last overnight food?
Dr Laura (33:19)
Okay, so Jade, again, the longer email describes that they're in a two bedroom apartment. And at the moment, their 10 month old non unicorn sleeper is in with them. And the four year old has her own bedroom. And that she doesn't she's not under a time constraint. She isn't in a rush. She just is wondering, is it worth doing it now? Or should they wait when they move? He'll have his own room. So listen, I would say,
because he is very loud when he settles to sleep and then very loud up to four times when he resettles himself overnight, I'll probably just hold your horses for another six months. If it's not bothering you too much and you're able to sleep through it, then I'll probably just keep him in your room for the time being. And then when you move to the new place in six months time, you might find that by then,
Dr Fallon (34:01)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (34:17)
He's a little bit quieter as he goes to sleep and might resettle more quietly overnight, in which case you potentially could put the two in the same room together or they could be in two separate rooms. But listen, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Would you say something different, Felon?
Dr Fallon (34:30)
Mm.
No, I only say that over time they usually get quieter at falling asleep and resettling themselves overnight. So you could work on, you know, reducing the overnight feeds. If you're wanting to drop the last overnight feed, you could do it. Sometimes then they just become really quiet overnight. And then if you are thinking, gosh, I really want to put this baby in with his sister. You know, you can do that knowing that he's pretty quiet overnight at that point. Yeah, I think it's a good, good one to be thinking through though, Jade, you've got to do.
Dr Laura (34:58)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (35:03)
what works best for you. if your sleep's really interrupted, you might really try and hurry this along. But if not, then yeah, you can take your time. Hmm. Who's reading out the next one? I don't know what we're up to. All right.
Dr Laura (35:10)
Mmm.
I can read it out. So this
is from Maria. She says, and I'm sorry if I haven't pronounced that correctly. I think it's Maria. Would you pronounce it Maria? Yeah. And Maria says, our three month old cries before sleep and has reflux. And she has two questions. How long should we pat or shush for after they fall asleep? And how do we know when to taper off patting and shushing?
Dr Fallon (35:25)
Yeah, I think it's Maria.
Dr Laura (35:44)
if they cry to sleep.
Dr Fallon (35:47)
Ooh, really good question. so if you're using an approach where you're patting and shushing to sleep, I would stop the patting and shushing when you feel pretty confident that they're not going to really notice, that you've stopped. Like they're deep enough asleep that you can stop it pretty easily without them sort of springing awake on you. and then how do we taper it off if they're crying a lot at sleep time? I would say.
Dr Laura (36:04)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (36:14)
There's a couple of things. It's a three month old baby. You could go one of two ways. It could be that you don't start tapering it off yet. You wait until they're settling with padding and shushing pretty happily. But then of course, some babies don't get to that point. Like we've talked about in other episodes, some of them are just like, I'm going to be really, really loud every time I transition from one state to the other for no particular reason, but I'm just going to be noisy. If they are always just a really grizzly unhappy baby when they transition to sleep.
Dr Laura (36:24)
Hmm.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (36:41)
you could still just start to phase it out. It could be that you do 10 pats and then you take your hand away for 10 seconds and then you do another 10. So they're kind of getting used to your padding being a little bit more intermittent. Yeah, that's how I would approach it. Would you add anything to that, Laura?
Dr Laura (36:55)
Yeah, no, I don't think so. Your baby is very little at the moment, Maria. And you are doing cot settling at this point, which hopefully will mean that when your baby does hit the four month mark where they start to have more adult like sleep architecture, and start to have stronger preferences for how they fall asleep, your baby will then have some
really good cot settling skills at that point. So if you want to carry on patting them all the way off to sleep for, you know, even the next week or two, and then start to work on weaning off the patting, that's fine. You've still, you know, you're a whole month away from where things might start to go a little bit sideways if they do. So yeah, don't put too much pressure on yourself. You go at your own pace.
and yeah just keep on working on that core settling and before you know it they'll be going off to sleep without your hands on them at all.
Dr Fallon (38:03)
Yeah, good luck Maria. Catherine wrote in as well. So she says, my nine month old sleeps 12 hours total. They do about eight to eight 30 PM bedtime to six 30 AM and they have three 45 minute naps during the daytime. Catherine wants to know, should I wake him from every nap or let him sleep longer for the first nap? Should I read all these questions out? Maybe then we answer them one by one.
Dr Laura (38:29)
Yeah,
maybe read them all out and then yeah.
Dr Fallon (38:32)
Yeah,
so the second question is if he has a bad night only having six hours total sleep overnight, can I give extra nap time the next day and how much? And finally, how long should we use the lie by the cot method and how to transition away from this? With that method you're using, maybe we just start with that, with whatever approach you're using the lie by the cot method. mean, it's there's a few of our approaches that that could be just follow the steps for phasing it out.
Dr Laura (38:50)
Okay.
I'm just
looking at the longer email, and she's using the supported accelerated approach and lying by the... Yeah, sleeping in there.
Dr Fallon (39:06)
okay, sleeping in there.
Yeah, okay. So yeah, I would just follow those, those steps when you get to the point of not needing to reach over and do anything to help your baby fall asleep. That's when I just start to wander out of the room during each interval and see how they go. They probably won't be too fast if you're out of the room. But how about those other two questions, Laura, what would you say?
Dr Laura (39:29)
Yeah, so I would say that at nine months old, your baby is having the three naps a day and you're waking your baby from each of them. And I know in the longer email, you had some questions about whether I should be, whether you should be waking him from each of those cycles, each of those naps rather at the end of a cycle. And I reckon that what we need to start doing is letting him
go for longer because get him on two naps. I think the reason it's you're finding it hard to transition to the two naps, Catherine, is that when you're waking him after one sleep cycle from the first nap, he's then he's just finding it too hard to get to the next nap where sleep pressure might only be allowing him to do one sleep cycle because the sleep pressure just the way that the body clock works. Often there's a
Dr Fallon (40:00)
Yeah, get him on two naps.
Dr Laura (40:26)
kind of biased towards a longer morning nap or afternoon nap and by the, oh sorry, second nap and then by the last nap, that one often can only be a short nap. It's just the way that babies' naps tend to evolve. So yes, I would suggest letting him have a longer first nap. Don't wake him, let him do an hour and a half. And then...
you can probably find that it's a bit easier to stretch him to just one nap in the afternoon. And that nap probably will just be about 45 minutes. And we do want to be thinking about when you are waking a baby, if you do need to wake your baby from their naps, timing it so that it is roughly the length of a sleep cycle.
so that you're not waking your baby mid-cycle. So in Sombell, we talk about how to work out how long your baby's sleep cycles are. So then not all babies have 45 minutes sleep cycle, but it seems that Catherine's baby does, which is kind of the average. So let him do one, an hour and a half nap in the morning, and then see how you go. Maybe a little bit tricky for a few days, just as he gets used to moving to the two-nap schedule, but that longer first nap is really gonna help him.
Dr Fallon (41:38)
Hmm.
Yeah, look, I'd say so many coaching calls I have with parents. It's that they kind of know they need to make some of these timing changes and be strict on it, but they just are lacking that confidence to dive in and do it. And with Catherine's second question where she's saying, if he has a bad night where he only has six hours sleep overnight, should she do extra nap time that day? I mean, that's a really bad night if he's up for four hours in the night. It sounds to me like Catherine's baby has the sort of...
Dr Laura (41:54)
Hmm
That is... yeah. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (42:11)
Some babies have this tendency to want to do lots of sleep during the day and as little as possible overnight. And you have to be really firm on holding steady on bedtime, wake up time, nap length. Because otherwise, if they have a bad night and you give them extra sleep, their circadian rhythm goes, great, I can do that. I'll have a party in the night because I'll just catch up later. So I would say, work out your daily rhythm. I'd say do 8.30 PM bedtime, 6 AM wake up.
Dr Laura (42:31)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (42:38)
Yes. Move to the two naps. You'll have a few tricky days and then you should see a really drastic improvement. you can do it, Catherine. We believe in you. Yeah.
Dr Laura (42:45)
Yeah, yeah, Let us know. Send us your update, Catherine.
We'd really like to hear how things are going because it does sound quite tricky. But we know that you're going to be able to do this. so make that big change to two naps and you will reap the benefits. Next week, hopefully, things will be looking much better.
Dr Fallon (42:53)
Mmm.
Yes, excellent. Let's keep powering through.
Dr Laura (43:09)
Okay, so
Nina has written and she says our 15 month old wakes between one and three times a night and wakes early for the day between half four and half five in the morning. Nina, that sounds awful. Nina says he settles well for naps and at bedtime and has an 11 and a half sleep need. So she puts into bed at 830 sorry at eight at night and he has one two hour nap at about 1030 in the morning.
She says, what are we doing wrong?
Dr Fallon (43:41)
not doing anything wrong. We just need to think about the maths on this one. So with an 11 and a half hours sleep need, and he's having a two hour day nap, that's bringing it down to maybe only nine and a half hours that he's looking for for sleep overnight. So if he goes to bed at, was it 8pm, then I'm trying to do the maths in my head. Half five. Yeah, it makes sense. Doesn't it? It's just, he's got nine and a half hours in the tank and he's awake at half five. yeah. So look, I would say
Dr Laura (43:53)
Hmm.
He'll be waking up at half five.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (44:11)
that it is a bit of a mass thing, I would trim down the day nap a little bit, maybe trim it down to an hour and a half and after a few days see how that shifted. Maybe try and also push it to lunchtime a bit closer if you can as well. So then that last stretch of awake time might be a bit easier. But yeah, it's just a timing issue, Nina. Often babies with a lower sleep need, or toddlers rather, just can't handle that long two hour day nap. It just keeps impacting their nights. So yeah, could have a tinker there.
Dr Laura (44:19)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Mmm.
Good.
Dr Fallon (44:39)
We also had a question from Joelle. Would you say Joelle? Is that how we say that? Yeah. Okay. She says, our five month old is rolling and we're weaning off the swaddle. it's hard. She's upset, falling asleep for naps with one arm out. Should we revert to the quick tapered approach or try the supported accelerated method?
Dr Laura (44:43)
Yeah, that's how I'd say it. Yeah.
you
So Joelle has previously written into us and she successfully used the quick tapered approach, which is in the very little baby program. And her baby had got to the point where he's able to, or she's able to fall asleep independently, but now because she's rolling, they need to unswaddle her. because she currently is able to fall asleep.
independently. I don't think you need to go back to using the quick tapered approach. I think that what will be happening now when you unswaddle her is just that she's going to be knocking herself in the face and just having these little hands floating in front of her eyes. And it's just needs to learn how to hold them still. So really, you just want to be giving her a little bit of extra support. And
Dr Fallon (45:34)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (45:58)
I think going to the supported accelerated approach, which is in the four to 12 month programme would be perfectly reasonable because you're not going all the way back to square one. Although she is now finding it a little bit harder to settle herself when she's got one arm out because you're partway through the the unswaddling steps. You don't need to assume that she's forgotten everything that she has previously learnt. So I think moving to the supported accelerated approach would be absolutely fine, Joelle. And just know it
Dr Fallon (46:06)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (46:28)
normally
just takes a few nights, know, maybe two or three nights and then your baby will be used to having her arms out.
Dr Fallon (46:33)
Yeah, it's
always such a tough transition. There's no easy way through it but to just plow straight ahead and stick to it and yeah they'll adapt. Good answer though Laura, love it.
Dr Laura (46:37)
Mm.
Okay so Jasmine has said that, because my 10 month old cries instantly we go into the bedroom making wind down difficult. He also has separation anxiety and has been teething for two months. How do we handle this and judge if that crying is teething pain or whether it's just behaviour?
Dr Fallon (47:08)
Start with pain relief because if you give pain relief 20, 30 minutes later, you can be really confident that pain isn't part of the equation. When 10 month olds are crying as soon as they go into the bedroom, often there is a history of the daily rhythm being a bit out of whack and they spend a little bit of time, a bit too much time awake in their cot feeling frustrated and cranky. And often they then kind of have this.
I don't like to say it's a negative association with the cot, but they kind of haven't had the most fun in the cot in their life. There's been times where they've been awake there a lot and it's annoyed them. so look, it's not necessarily anything to worry about, but I would say, just make sure the daily rhythm is a good fit, that they're only going into their bedroom and into the cot when they're truly ready for sleep. And if you've ruled out teething pain, then you can be pretty confident at just sticking to.
Dr Laura (47:36)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (47:58)
settling plan. We can't keep stopping the plan every time there's teething pain because like Jasmine said it goes on and on and on there's always a tooth that's rumbling around in there at this age. Yeah, yeah that's what I would say good luck Jasmine it's tricky time.
Dr Laura (48:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, and keep assisting with the settling approach. if in the longer email Jasmine says that she takes him into the room, he cries, she walks out, he stops crying, goes back into the room, he cries. So in a sense, you're nicely trained, Jasmine, because every time there's that cry, you leave the room, it stops.
Dr Fallon (48:17)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (48:31)
So what we want is for your baby to see that actually he's safe and contained and happy in his room. Nothing bad is going to happen. If you keep taking him out, then you're really saying, yeah, you're right to be crying. But when you are able to just calmly and confidently support him in his cot, even when he's crying, you're more likely to get out the other side. So yeah, good luck, Jasmine.
Dr Fallon (48:43)
Mm.
Excellent. We also had Emily write in with, think, a question we can fly through, which is a good thing because I'm looking at how many we've got to go still, No, that's all right. It's hard not to, isn't it? So Emily says when her baby is settling, so her baby likes to suck their hands, move around a bit, vocalizes a little bit, but not crying. She says, should I still pat? Sometimes it seems to interrupt him or even excite him.
Dr Laura (49:02)
Okay, sorry, I should stop adding extra.
Yeah, so no, you don't need to pat. So if your baby is just happily lying in the bed trying to self settle sucking the hands, you don't want to interrupt it. So no, you and I know that from the longer email she's doing supported accelerated. So you only want to be doing a short number of pats anyway, when you and only if they're crying. Yep. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (49:33)
Mmm.
and only if they're crying. So if they're not crying, you don't need to do anything. Yeah.
Excellent.
Dr Laura (49:49)
Okay, so Monique has a 10 month old who sleeps for between 12 hours 15 and 12 and a half hours total. And she has two naps a day, one for an hour and a half in the morning and a 30 minute one in the afternoon. Monique says that he's waking just before 6am and resisting his last nap. What should I do?
Dr Fallon (50:13)
Okay, so 10 months old, he is on two naps. He's having two hours total day sleep and a 10 and a half hour window overnight. So it's sort of adding up to what his sleep need is, which is really good. He's starting to wake just before 6am, resisting his second nap. So he could be a baby who's going to drop that second nap quite early.
Dr Laura (50:36)
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (50:38)
doesn't mean that you should do it, but if you're finding it's really hard to get that second nap in, it could be that the first nap even gets trimmed down a little bit. But I think also sleep needs gradually decline. So if you just measured 12 and a half hours last week, well, probably not, but if that 12 and a half hours sleep need was measured a month ago or more, his sleep needs could be dropping. So if it's an occasional waking before six a.m., I wouldn't be too worried.
Dr Laura (50:44)
Hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (51:03)
But if it's starting to become a pattern, I'd say his sleep needs have dropped and you'll need to trim something from somewhere. And you can use the daily rhythm charts in Sunbell to give you a little bit of guidance around that Monique. But yeah, hopefully back on track pretty quick with a few little adjustments to the timing.
Dr Laura (51:07)
Hmm.
Mm. Awesome. Okay. Yeah. Do you want to go?
Dr Fallon (51:20)
Cool. All right. Do want me to read out this? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
don't know who's doing what. okay. So we have Amelia who has, can't believe how many we're getting through. We're just like bang, bang, bang. We're doing so good, Laura. It's like running a marathon. I keep looking at the timer and I'm like, okay, we can do this. All right. So we have Amelia, who wrote in, she has a five month old who self settles, but has false starts nightly, waking 40 minutes after bedtime.
Dr Laura (51:32)
Yeah.
It is.
Dr Fallon (51:50)
crying hysterically and rolling around. She sleeps 13 hours total with four 30 to 40 minute naps. And Amelia would like to know what she can do to help her stop having those false starts.
Dr Laura (52:02)
Okay, Amelia, I think that what you need to do is move your five month old to three naps a day. Often we see those false starts because the sleep pressure is just not quite high enough at the start of the night. And at five months of age, she's currently having four naps, which would mean that that last nap is probably getting a little bit too close to bedtime and she might only be awake for
an hour and half or two hours perhaps before bedtime and really she needs that to be up much, she needs to be up for much longer than that before bedtime. So I would be looking to perhaps do something similar to what we recommended to one of the other members earlier and think about letting your baby have a longer first nap, try and combine that, you know,
the first nap into like two sleep cycles so that then you can then have one longer nap and two shorter ones. And you should probably really see that that fixes those false starts which you're having every night.
Dr Fallon (53:10)
Hmm.
Yeah. And if they're just a really persistent catnapper, it might just be three catnaps. And for some babies, that's fine too. So yeah. Yeah. See how you go, Amelia. But yeah, definitely a timing, timing issue there that's causing the false starts. Good.
Dr Laura (53:18)
yes, true, yes.
Okay,
so Cassie says, my 12 month old needs skin to skin contact to sleep and wakes multiple times nightly. How can I transition her to sleep alone and stop co sleeping? And I just want to add that Jessica's baby is, I think she needs to hold her, sorry, Cassie's baby is, yeah, it needs to have her hand on Cassie's face or chest.
Dr Fallon (53:46)
Cassie?
Dr Laura (53:56)
fall asleep.
Dr Fallon (53:58)
it's tough. This is one of the ones we could probably do a whole episode on. Okay, so they're liking to have some kind of contact with you to fall asleep. There's no reason why you can't. I mean, you could use any of the approaches. If you want to move to a cot, you could use one of the cot settling approaches and just apply it and that would be entirely fine. But I think Cassie's writing in because it is really tricky to have a child who wants to be touching you and you're trying to convince them to fall asleep without touching you.
Dr Laura (54:00)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (54:23)
it could be that you use a cot settling approach and you keep your hand through the side of the cot and you hold hands with her and then you work on weaning right off or one of the strategies that could also work is to Be holding if she wants to hold your hand be holding something else So she kind of can't help but touch the other thing. I'm giving this the quickest version I possibly can but it might be that you decide okay I want to get it used to a comforter so you hold that comforter in your hand and then when you're 12 month old is trying to hold your hand
they're also having to kind of feel that the comforter is there and that's all you do you just keep holding the comforter they hold your hand in the comforter and after a week you might find that they're actually then okay with holding the comforter instead of touching your skin and so it kind of eases that transition a little bit but it is a really complex situation and it can be a really tricky change to make it's totally doable though Cassie and if this answer has been too light touch which i suspect it might have been you could always book a coaching call and we can have a really good chat through the exact right approach for your child
Dr Laura (55:02)
you
Dr Fallon (55:23)
We have Jessica who emailed in about her four month old sleep. She says after she had her four month vaccination, she started to have a really tricky patch with her sleep, waking about every 40 minutes overnight. She wonders, is this normal post vaccination or is it sort of the four month sleep regression? Also she screams and vomits when I try to settle her in the cot.
Dr Laura (55:23)
soon.
Dr Fallon (55:49)
She's wondering should she be persisting with the slow fade approach or doing something else. So again another really complicated one really.
Dr Laura (55:55)
Hmm,
yeah, it is. So if this answer is too light touch, Jessica, then you may well find that a coaching call would be really helpful for you. the what we know about the vaccinations is that some babies can be a little bit off colour after having their vaccinations. And normally you get given a you know, information leaflet by the nurse at the vaccinations. And some babies just
Dr Fallon (56:01)
Mm.
Dr Laura (56:25)
go through their vaccinations and it's neither here nor there and others might feel a bit under the weather and need lots of cuddles. Yeah. But we don't see that the sleep falls over because of the vaccinations other than if your child feels a little bit under the weather and then it normally passes in 24 hours or so. So I think it's probably more likely that your baby's sleep has worsened because it's just developmentally at that point.
Dr Fallon (56:30)
Yeah, I feel a bit crook.
Dr Laura (56:51)
and she's around that four month mark where her sleep architecture changes and she's developing some strong preferences. So that would be one thing. The other thing I'd be considering is just logging her sleep needs to make sure that you're not starting to try to settle her to sleep before she's ready.
screaming and vomiting when you're trying to settle her when you're using the most gradual approach, which is a slow fade approach, which is actually the first week or so is just simply settling her like you currently do. But adding in some new sleep associations, I wouldn't be expecting to see such an extreme reaction to that settling using such a gradual approach. So that makes me think that perhaps the timing is not quite right for her sleep needs now.
Dr Fallon (57:37)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (57:44)
So I would be looking at that timing and then have a think about when you've got the timing right, whether you want to persist with that most gradual approach or whether you would prefer to move to one of the slightly quicker ones.
Dr Fallon (57:44)
Yeah.
I think that's such a great response, Laura. Getting that timing right is absolutely key if you've got a baby who isn't so keen on being in their cot. It can really make a big difference. Good. We've also got Natasha who emailed about her 22 month old, so a toddler.
She said inconsistent settling due to repeated gastro. gosh, it's really hard. And that has led to co-sleeping. They're wondering if they should continue as they had before or be trying something different. So yeah, there's been inconsistency. Should they go back to what they were trying or just try something completely different?
Dr Laura (58:38)
Yeah, and I know from the longer email that Natasha is using the toddler program using the advanced accelerated approach and each time was able to do it for two days and saw great success and then on the third day someone else in the family got sick with gastro. So I would say that the signs are really good that your toddler has responded well to that approach. And now that the gastro has gone through everyone it possibly could in the household. Let's try and catch this window of wellness.
Dr Fallon (58:52)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (59:06)
and I would just continue to use it and just would keep everything crossed that you have a run of good health in your family and so that those settling approaches can become firmed up and well established in your toddler. So good luck and I wish you health from here on in Natasha.
Dr Fallon (59:24)
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah, for sure.
Dr Laura (59:29)
Okay so then we have got two more to go Fallon we're nearly nearly there we can do it before
Dr Fallon (59:33)
We can do it. These are going to be the raciest
responses, the fastest ones we've ever done. All right, we can do it.
Dr Laura (59:38)
Yeah, I've got an appointment in like 10 minutes. we've got. Okay, so
Jess has said my 10 month old sleeps for 12 hours, 45 minutes total, and has a seven hour stretch nightly. And she asked how long should I leave her if she wakes up overnight, but is content. She rarely signals sometimes staying awake quietly in her cot, and they only notice when they just see her on the monitor, and she might have been
lying awake for a while. What do you think Fallon?
Dr Fallon (1:00:10)
Okay, start with that one.
If she's awake and she's happy, you don't need to go to her. If she needed something from you, she would make noise, you would definitely know about it. But still, if she's spending a lot of time awake in her cot, even if she's happy in her cot awake overnight, there's something a bit off with the daily rhythm. So check in on, you know, that 12 hours 45. Are you allowing 12 hours 45 in that daily rhythm? Or are you allowing heaps more and therefore she's waking up lying there, you know, waiting to fall back asleep again.
Dr Laura (1:00:26)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Yeah, good. Jess also wonders if there's an app or a monitor that we might recommend to alert them to her wakeups overnight.
Dr Fallon (1:00:40)
Yeah.
Yes, but it's called your baby's voice. I'm not a big fan. Like, I mean, I definitely don't have a specific app or a monitor to recommend, but, I, monitors can create a lot of anxiety. That's the short way of putting it. So if you can hear your baby when they cry at night, like you can just hear them. You don't need a monitor, just wait. And if they cry out, then you'll hear it and you'll know to go to them.
Dr Laura (1:00:51)
Yes.
No.
Dr Fallon (1:01:13)
Yeah, so I wouldn't recommend anything specific. If they're a long way away from you you're not sure if you'll hear them when they cry, definitely get a monitor. But I'd aim for an audio monitor too. I wouldn't do a video monitor personally. I think it's too easy to lie there looking at them worrying and noticing all these things that you don't actually need to notice.
Dr Laura (1:01:13)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah. And I think Jess is feeling worried about the impact this is having on attachment, but just know that if your baby needs you in the night and she cries, that's her using her main method of communication, which is crying. And that's not telling you that there's anything wrong. She's doing what she needs to do. So it won't be damaging attachment. She does also, she does wonder why babies cry in their sleep. Are they having nightmares? Are they teething or is it something else?
Dr Fallon (1:01:42)
Hmm.
Yep.
Yeah, absolutely.
great question. We need a research project that might look at some of these things I reckon. Babies can be really noisy in their sleep, they can cry and still be asleep. We don't know exactly what's going on. I don't know really that it's nightmares or teething. If there's pain they're just gonna wake up.
In any case, I just think look, there's not a lot you can do about it. It's just gonna happen sometimes for babies Usually as they get older it stops happening or if there was a nightmare They'll verbalize it to you when they're a toddler and they're able to But it's not something to be worried about
Dr Laura (1:02:20)
No.
Mm hmm. No, good. And our last question,
Fallon, from Katherine. And Katherine says, should I leave my seven month old's bedroom door open or closed? She says, I worry about noise or light, but also the room temperature with the air con and the ceiling fan on. What's best?
Dr Fallon (1:02:36)
you
it's really tricky. Well, your seven month old can't be scared of the dark. So totally fine to close the door. I would just be thinking what interrupts them more? is it do a bit of an experiment. If I have the door shut and maybe it's, you know, a little bit.
warmer or a little bit cooler in the room because the doors close but they sleep pretty well because that's the light coming in the door that tends to wake them. That's kind of going to guide what you're going to do. Most babies don't like a draft on them, they can cool down too quickly with a draft on them. So if you're using an aircon or a fan, try not to point it right at them, just you know nearby or going past them or something like that. I think it really just comes down to working out what your baby responds better to. Would you add anything to that Laura?
Dr Laura (1:03:13)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Yeah,
no, I think that there isn't a right or wrong answer. And Catherine did say in her longer email that she was aware that there probably wouldn't be right or wrong and her mother's group is divided about what the answer is. And yeah, we can't give a right or wrong answer either. So it's really just going to be based on how your child is responding. Of course, we don't want the room to get so hot that it is a risk to your baby's health.
So if by having the door shut, you really are worried that the temperature would get too high, then safety just prevails. So you would have to have the door open. But if that isn't an issue and you can get the aircon or ceiling fan on, but not directly on your baby, and you find that it's better to have the door shut because she's really...
Dr Fallon (1:04:13)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (1:04:28)
aware of noises and light outside, then have the door shut. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:04:34)
Yeah. Yep. I think that's a really good answer. We did it. my God. It feels like we ran a marathon. 18 questions. Holy heck. Go us. So yeah, apologies to anyone whose question we raced through. might not have been like the most comprehensive answer, but it's the best that we could do.
Dr Laura (1:04:38)
Woohoo!
Dr Fallon (1:04:53)
And I want to thank those who have bought us a coffee. If you want to buy us a coffee, there's a link in the show notes to do so. It's such a nice little surprise when we get someone doing this, but I wanted to pass on a big thank you to Sian, Louise, Fiona, Annalise, Sam, Faye, Samantha, Monica and Lauren for shouting us a coffee. We love coffee. It's very nice of you. So yeah, thanks heaps.
Dr Laura (1:05:13)
Yes, thank you so much.
Dr Fallon (1:05:17)
If you love the podcast, leave a review, come join Sombelle if you need the extra support, if you need a coaching call, we're here to help you, so do reach out. And if you haven't subscribed to the podcast, please do. Thanks for tuning in everyone. You'll hear from us again next week.
Dr Laura (1:05:32)
Thanks everyone, bye bye.
