Dr Fallon (00:02)
If you've been trying to get your baby or toddler to go to bed earlier and wake a little earlier, then the end of daylight savings time is going to be a huge win for you. But what if you're happy with your baby or toddler's bedtime and their wake up time, and you feel mildly petrified that the end of daylight savings time is going to mess things up? Well, never fear, because today we're going to explain how you can take preemptive steps to ensure a smooth transition.
when clocks change this coming Sunday in Victoria, New South Wales, ACT, South Australia and Tasmania.
Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast companion to the Sombelle pediatric sleep clinic programs created by us. I'm Dr. Fallon Cook and I'm here with Dr. Laura Conway. are PhDs and sleep practitioners and co-directors of Infant Sleep Australia.
Laura, how are you feeling about the end of Daylight Savings Time?
Dr Laura (01:01)
Well, I'm looking forward to a little bit of time where the mornings aren't quite so dark before we plunge fully into winter. But yeah, it's, yeah, it always being from the UK, it always means that the times I can call home to family and friends changes. And there's a bit of adjustment for us around that as well. It depends for some people, it gets easier. But for my older relatives who
Dr Fallon (01:07)
Hmm.
it get easier or harder to be in touch with family?
Dr Laura (01:30)
have different bedtime and wake ups, slightly outside of the normal realms of bedtime and wake up, it can be a little bit more challenging. Yes, so it's just a bit of an adjustment. then the older relatives tend to finally get used to it. And then it takes them a long time. And then the clocks change again. So there was always a little bit of trepidation for me when the clocks change. Yeah, I get calls in the middle of the night, it all just goes a little bit haywire for a
Dr Fallon (01:37)
Yeah.
Yep.
They're always guessing.
Dr Laura (01:57)
bit of time there. But anyhow, how about you? How are you feeling about daylight saving ending?
Dr Fallon (01:57)
Yeah.
I love it. This is
the one that I really love because you, you feel like you're getting an extra hour sleeping in the morning. The other one in what is it? October, September, whenever it is. don't even, should just so know this. But anyway, I hate that one. I hate getting up the hour earlier and it's always such a battle with kids who just do not want to get out of bed an hour earlier. So this one feels pretty good and I love winter. So I'm really excited. I'm loving the cold winds that we're getting and
Dr Laura (02:04)
yes.
Yeah, October.
You
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (02:30)
I don't know.
I'm someone who likes to be tucked off all cozy, you know, inside by the fire much more than I'd be at a beach or something in summer. yeah.
Dr Laura (02:33)
Yeah... Yeah...
Shame you're starting renovations
on your house at the moment and that cosiness isn't gonna quite be there. The gaping wind blowing through the back.
Dr Fallon (02:42)
Well, we're going to end up...
No, they're going to put up a fake wall. I didn't even know that was a thing, but they're going to put up a fake wall to protect us from the elements, which is kind of them. But what's funny is that half of our kitchen is going to be like cordoned off and we will actually be using the old wood stove, which still works and it's awesome to use. So yeah, I'm going to be like chopping wood and cooking on a really old hundred year old wood stove, which...
Dr Laura (02:51)
okay.
Good.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (03:11)
probably sounds horrific to most people, but I'm excited. Although the yeah, I'm sure the novelty will wear off.
Dr Laura (03:15)
I'm picturing you in like a, yeah maybe,
I'm picturing you in like a Victorian outfit with like a pinny and a bonnet feeding wood into the woodstove.
Dr Fallon (03:21)
You
You
screaming child on my hip. Yeah, pretty much is like that anyway. So maybe we should talk parents through what the changes are that are going to happen with the clock. And, you know, if you're wanting to keep your child on their current kind of daily rhythm, we want to talk you through how you can kind of prepare them for that. So I guess to give a bit of a summary, so we're coming up to Sunday, the 6th of April. That's when the clocks are going to change.
Dr Laura (03:29)
Yes! dear.
Dr Fallon (03:55)
And at 3am, the clocks will go back an hour to 2am. So essentially for your baby or your toddler or your child, at 6pm to your child, it's going to feel like 7pm. So they're to be tired early in the evening and at 6am, they're going to feel like it's 7am. So they might be waking up bit earlier than normal, feeling like they're ready to go long before it's actually time to be ready to go.
Dr Laura (04:20)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (04:22)
If you want to keep your child on their current schedule. So this often applies to families who send their kids to childcare or kinder, because there's a certain time you need to drop them off so that you can get to work on time. It might be really important to keep them on the same daily rhythm. And I guess you've got two options. You can make some gradual adjustments in the lead up to Sunday, or you can just go, nah, we'll wing it. We'll just see what happens. You see what we feel like doing on the day.
Dr Laura (04:47)
yet.
Dr Fallon (04:51)
Either way, your child's going to adjust. You'll adjust as well. It might feel a little tougher, but for some families, that's fine. I never in my life have made a conscious effort in the lead up to daylight savings. I prefer flying by the seat of my pants and that's probably why my children are always so grumpy about it. But what do you do in your house, Laura? Do you do a bit of prep?
Dr Laura (04:56)
Mm.
You
Yeah, look,
no, I certainly don't prep now. The kids are older and I just figure every man for themselves. just do our best. Deal with it. When they were younger, yeah, look, did depend on which way the wind was blowing and how organized I was. Sometimes I did prepare for it. One of my children had trickier sleep than the other.
Dr Fallon (05:15)
Yeah.
Deal with it children!
Hmm.
Dr Laura (05:37)
and so, yes, I knew it would be better for the whole family if we did do a lead in, and, you know, just slowly move bedtime and wake up in the week, leading up to it. but other times I just forgot I was busy and, it just crept up on me and then we just had to deal with it. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (05:46)
Mmm.
Yeah, yeah,
fair enough. Well, let's talk through what you can do if you decide you want your child to kind of have a bit of an adjustment period. And what we've done as well, I've just published on our social media feed today, some nice little pictures with some text on it. there's like a really clear guide for how you can make these changes. So if you're more of a visual learner, that might be a good idea just to check out our feed and have a look at that post.
Dr Laura (06:18)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (06:26)
Um, on Instagram, handle these infant dot sleep dot Australia. It's probably the same thing on Facebook. It's a good chance. So you could try that. Um, but I don't know if is anybody on Facebook anymore? Maybe not. Not many. Yeah. Um, all right. So here's what you're going to do if you want this gradual adjustment on Wednesday, the second you're going to move the wake up time, the nap times and the bedtime 15 minutes later. So the whole day shifts along 15 minutes later.
Dr Laura (06:33)
Yeah.
Not many, hardly anyone.
Dr Fallon (06:55)
So if your child goes to bed at 7 PM normally, then you're going to aim for a 7.15 PM bedtime. and if maybe they're normally up at 6 AM, you're now going to aim for a 6.15 AM wake up. And I did have comment today saying, how are we magically supposed to make our babies sleep in 15 minutes longer? And I was like, well, you can't.
Dr Laura (07:01)
Mm-hmm.
You can't make them, yeah.
Dr Fallon (07:17)
but you can let them have
that opportunity and see if they want to take it. If your baby doesn't sleep in, it doesn't matter. It's totally fine. You're just giving them that opportunity too. And as you keep shuffling the day along, they'll probably want to start sleeping in that extra bit of time. Anyway.
Dr Laura (07:27)
Yeah.
Yeah, and also what we're
thinking about is that every day when light hits the back of our eyes at wake up time, when you turn the lights on and it is turning the lights on rather than opening the blinds at the moment because it is so dark, we're resetting our body clock. So there are actually photoreceptors in the back of our eyes that when the light hits them sends some signals to the body clock in our brain.
Dr Fallon (07:46)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (07:58)
which then kicks off a whole series of processes. So if your baby was to wake at six rather than 6.15, that's okay, just keep it a bit dim and boring and then turn the lights on at 6.15. So we are actually engineering the science. We're engineering the chemicals. So it's not about forcing your child to stay in their cot if they're awake, but it's just, you know, think about just not starting the day with the gusto you normally would until 6.15.
Dr Fallon (07:59)
Mmm.
Yes.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, that's perfect. And this is similar advice we give with jet lag. Anytime you're trying to shuffle the circadian rhythm along, think about the timing of when they experienced that light. No, I'm glad you jumped in with that Laura. It's perfect. So then on Thursday, the third, you're to do the exact same thing, moving everything 15 minutes later again. So that 7pm bedtime is now becoming a 7.30pm bedtime. And what was a 6am wake up becomes a 6.30am wake up.
And Friday the fourth, you're doing it the same again. So 7.45 PM bedtime, 6.45 AM wake up. And on Saturday the fifth, you do it one last time. So you've got them on an 8 PM bedtime and a 7 AM wake up. And then on Sunday, when the clocks go back that hour, that 8 PM bedtime is going to become the 7 PM bedtime that you previously had. The 7 AM wake up is obviously going to turn into a 6 AM wake up. So everything shifts back to where it started.
You know, you'll sort of keep them in that pattern. So that can be a good process to follow if this is something that yeah, you're really worried about. And just keep in mind that it's totally okay to wake your child. It's okay to stretch them out a little bit longer than normal. Like I know a lot of parents are like, no, but they'll be getting really over tired. I'm not worried about over tiredness. If they're over the age of about 12 weeks, they're to be fine with an extra 15 minutes.
Dr Laura (09:24)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (09:47)
really tiny
little babies might struggle a little bit more, but it's not a huge shift. And I want you to remember when you, maybe struggling a bit with this to consider what it would be like if you had flown in from, maybe you went to visit Laura's family in the UK and you're flown back in home again and that your circadian rhythm is completely turned on its head. You would not be worried about trying to keep your baby awake a bit more in the day, trying to make them sleep a bit more at night. Babies can adjust to really huge schedule changes.
Dr Laura (09:51)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (10:15)
your child's going to be fine with these little subtle shifts across the next week. Yeah, is there anything you'd add to that, Laura?
Dr Laura (10:20)
Hmm.
No, I'm just so delighted that you took the lead on that discussion, Fallon, because this is like my kryptonite. Which way, whether it's falling forwards or springing back or whatever it is, yeah, I often get myself tied up in knots. So I'm delighted that you described it so clearly and that you create those lovely posts on our socials so that I can direct families to those.
Dr Fallon (10:31)
Hahaha!
Yeah.
You
I
would be lost if I didn't create those posts. I really have to sit down and think about this an extraordinary amount. Like it's, it's shocking. Someone in a coaching call, they're probably listening and they'll be like, that was us. but it was maybe two or three weeks ago. I said, what should we do in the lead up to like the end of daylight savings? And I was like, gee, does it go forward? Does it go back? What happens?
Dr Laura (11:13)
Yeah, which way
is it? Yeah.
Dr Fallon (11:14)
And
I was like, you know what, I'm just, I'll do a post about it pretty close to the time. Keep an eye on our socials. We don't have time to unpack it today. I'll make sure it's really clear in there. I hope they're listening and they're finally getting the answer. Cause I cannot think of these things on the fly. I really do have to. Yeah. Map it out. And even now I have the post open in case I suddenly forget and get confused.
Dr Laura (11:28)
No.
Yeah, and we're not even sleep deprived.
So, you know, hats off to all of our listeners who are sleep deprived and trying to work this out. So just follow those steps in Fallon's post. just hopefully you'll understand the process as well after we've just talked through why we do it. And yeah, good luck and you'll live to tell the tale and then you can you can practice it next time when it goes the other way. And yeah.
Dr Fallon (11:39)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah. And Sombelle members, keep in mind that you have a lesson. It's in the troubleshooting chapter and it's all about how to make this shift to the end of daylight savings time. So you've got a whole lesson in there where it talks through all of this as well and gives you step-by-step instructions. So if my Instagram post doesn't do it for you, you've also got that as well to refer to. That's the beauty of Sombelle is that whenever there's something like this, you can pop back in.
Dr Laura (12:23)
check out the lesson.
Dr Fallon (12:29)
And yeah, figure out what you need to do. Awesome. All right. We have got, I think, 14 questions to get through from parents, Laura. So we had a chat. We're like, right, we're going to do some stretches and we're going to power through these. Yeah. Well, you can do it. All right. Do you want to start with May's question? You need a drink of water before this.
Dr Laura (12:30)
Yeah.
Yep.
Yes, crack our knuckles. Yep.
Yes. Okay. Taking a sip of water in preparation. Yeah. Take a deep breath. Off we go. So May
has shared that her 17 month old has been sleeping better after a schedule adjustment, which is awesome. Her little one is sleeping 10 hours overnight and has an hour and a half long nap. But recently May writes that her toddler woke up at 2.30 AM for an hour and a half.
which hasn't happened in months. So their toddler was really upset and wouldn't settle without being held even after 10 or 15 minutes. So May asks, how can she help her toddler who currently self settles? So how can I help resettle my self settling toddler during extended night wakings without creating bad habits? And if this becomes a recurring issue and indicates changing sleep needs, should she reduce the nap duration?
before reducing nighttime sleep.
Dr Fallon (13:50)
Yes. Second question, definitely. If you're thinking this drop in sleep needs, it could be that you trim the nap, but also have a think about bedtime and wake up time. Maybe you actually shuffle, you know, some parents will say my toddler does better with a longer day nap. I don't want to trim that down. I'd rather push bedtime a bit later. So one or the other should sort out any sleep pressure issue if they're changing sleep needs. How do you help resettle them without creating bad habits?
Dr Laura (14:09)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (14:18)
what you're going to think about is, giving them some support, but not all the support. So often parents do say, they're awake for an hour. I just bought them into my bed or I just held them to sleep. It was too hard. Sometimes that will just happen and that's okay. No judgment. But if you can manage it, start small, start by sitting near them and just shushing and do it for 10 minutes and see if it helps calm them. That's not working. Rest a hand on them. If that's not working, pat them.
Dr Laura (14:40)
you
Dr Fallon (14:46)
If that's not working, think of some other, maybe it's two hands on them or you may be having breaks to give brief cuddles, but then you're popping them back down awake. So you kind of building up gradually. You're not going straight to some previous habit that you worked really hard to get rid of. But you're not giving them no support at all. You're just starting with something really small because often the ones that can self-settle will be quite content with just a little bit of more support than normal. Hopefully that was just a once off though.
Dr Laura (15:02)
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (15:15)
and yeah, if you're keeping an eye on sleep needs, hopefully it wouldn't become a recurrent problem. So yeah, good luck, Mae. Would you add anything to that, Laura?
Dr Laura (15:16)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
No, I don't think so. just happened the once May, so hopefully it's just a one off and sleep isn't linear. And she could have been coming down with something, there could have been something just had happened in the day that caused her to wake up overnight. So try not to lose your nerve or worry that this is something that is going to happen every night. It can be a real shock to the system when you've had a long stretch of good sleep to suddenly have a poor night again.
So yeah, but just hang in there mate and then you know what to do if it turns out that this is happening every night, then it is time to make some adjustments to that daily schedule.
Dr Fallon (15:51)
Yeah.
Yeah, and go back into Sombelle and we'll give you that support to do that. Erica wrote in, she's seeking guidance on re-establishing sleep routines for her almost one year old after starting daycare. She says he's been frequently sick leading to bed sharing out of exhaustion.
Dr Laura (16:05)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (16:19)
Erica aims to get back to a consistent daily rhythm, but he's confused about how daycare affects their child's sleep schedule. So although daycare tries to follow the daily rhythm, he often has his second nap early when he's there, leading to a long, long wake period before bed, which can be up to six hours. He manages well with this longer time awake and Erica is finding that he now seems less ready for bedtime after the shorter awake time on home days.
So Erica has four questions. Maybe I'll go, should I go through them one by one, Laura? Or do we want to read them all out one by one? All right. So the first one is, should they try to match the daycare rhythm and extend the wake window before bed?
Dr Laura (16:53)
Yeah, let's, yeah, one by one, I reckon. Yeah.
think it depends how many days a week your child is at daycare, Erica. Often, if a child is at daycare three or more days a week, it makes sense to actually try and match the rhythms. Because yeah, it just makes life a little bit easier. And the fact that you say that your little one is managing really well, having a longer wake time suggests that they're probably around about ready to have longer awake times. So yeah.
Dr Fallon (17:33)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (17:33)
If
it was only one day a week, then I probably wouldn't. I'll just be, sorry, if your child was only a daycare one or two days a week, then, you know, the balance is more in favor of what's happening at home. So I wouldn't be looking at matching it. But yeah, more than three or more days I would match it.
Dr Fallon (17:52)
Yeah,
I think so too. Are nap times as important as consistent morning wake up and bed times when establishing a daily rhythm?
Dr Laura (18:01)
I would say that the most important things are the consistent wake up time each day. Because that acts as a really nice signpost, that's the day has started. So I'd be looking at trying to keep the the wake up time as your top priority, then bedtime, and then really the amount of daytime sleep.
Dr Fallon (18:22)
Hmm. And is the total amount of daytime sleep more important than maintaining a consistent rhythm? Hmm. I'd say yes. Yeah, I think it's a good question though.
Dr Laura (18:29)
gosh, these are really. Yeah, yeah, it is. These
are great questions, Erica. Yeah. Yes, we were always thinking about that daily budget, Erica. So how much sleep your baby needs. And then we don't want to blow the budget across during the day so that there isn't enough left overnight. So, yeah, I would be thinking about having
Dr Fallon (18:35)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (18:57)
always aiming for roughly the same amount of daytime sleep. And when you're in this kind of tricky phase, where your child is moving from two naps down to one nap, it can be useful just to think to yourself, okay, it's like an hour and a half or it's two hours or whatever that daytime budget is. And, you know, maybe some days it's going to be two naps and some days it's going to be one nap, but it's never going to exceed that total amount of day sleep budget.
Dr Fallon (19:24)
Hmm.
And finally they ask, should wake windows get progressively longer throughout the day? That's a quick answer, but I love the question again. It's a good one. Yeah.
Dr Laura (19:32)
Yes. Yeah. Brilliant question, Erica. Yes, they generally
do get once you're out of little baby phases or stages, generally, wake windows do get longer as the day goes on. And I do notice the wording that you use, Erica, where you're nearly one year old is awake up to six hours before bed. That's actually going to be the new normal. You know, your baby is transition or your toddler is transitioning to one nap.
Dr Fallon (19:57)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (20:00)
and is actually gonna need a nice long stretch awake. And what you may find depending on what their sleep need is that they're awake for five or six hours before they go down for their nap. then they're awake for maybe, again, it depends what their sleep needs are, but know, six or seven hours before bedtime. So that the wake time when you're dropping down to one nap is often shorter before the nap and then longer in the lead up to bedtime.
Dr Fallon (20:18)
Hmm.
Yeah, excellent answers. Love it. Great questions.
Dr Laura (20:31)
Yeah,
thanks, Erica. So now we have a question from Joanna. So Joanna and her partner are using the advanced accelerated approach with their one year old who has separation anxiety. They're taking it in turn settling during the intervals and they're on night three and they're already noticing improvements. So that's awesome. I always love hearing when parents are sharing the load. That's great. And they have two questions. I think that
Dr Fallon (20:54)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (20:59)
both a little bit different. So I think I'll just read the first one out and then move on to the second one. So Joanna says, when can they start leaving the room at the beginning of bedtime as the separation anxiety eases?
Dr Fallon (21:15)
Yeah, so with separation anxiety, I wouldn't push too hard to leave the room. If there's no separation anxiety, I'd be saying, yeah, I just have a go at wandering away briefly and coming back and you you're told they probably won't mind too much. With separation anxiety, often they're sensitive to too many changes all at once. So if you're noticing their separation anxiety is easing, then I would say, yeah, go and wander over near the doorway or something, or have some washing to fold in the hallway just outside their room so they can see you but...
Dr Laura (21:39)
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (21:44)
there's a bit more distance, see how they're going with that. And you might hopefully really quickly find that you can wander away. And yeah, you'll get to that point where you can just say good night, wander away and they're fine. They put themselves to sleep. Just don't push too hard to get there too quickly.
Dr Laura (21:57)
Hmm.
Yeah. And Joanna's second question is, should grandparents use the same technique for daytime naps or can grandparents follow their own nap time routine?
Dr Fallon (22:15)
Ideally, it's great if they do, because then your child is just getting the same cues that at sleep time as what they do, you know, at home or overnight when they're with their parents. So it can help to reduce confusion, but it's not the end of the world. Babies and toddlers are so good at realizing, granny settles me one way, dad settles me another way. They can pick up on that, you know, reasonably quickly and easily. So I wouldn't worry too much. I often say to parents, when you're
Dr Laura (22:29)
Hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (22:45)
So fortunate to have the help of grandparents. mean, it's just an incredible blessing to have help from family. We don't want to rock the boat too much, getting them to do something maybe they don't want to do. You know, lot of grandparents are like, no, I want to cuddle them in a rocking chair until they're asleep. You know, you're getting free help. So don't rock that boat. Just keep them happy. It probably won't be the end of the world for your child to have a couple of different ways of settling.
Dr Laura (22:51)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, the important thing is Joanna that you and your partner continue to settle your toddler in the same way. So if you are sometimes holding your baby to sleep with your partner is sticking rigidly to the advanced accelerated approach, you're going to end up in a world of pain. So you two be a united team, but if granny does something a bit different, then so be it.
Dr Fallon (23:27)
Yeah.
Yeah, yep, 100%. And I love that teamwork. It's brilliant. Well done. Maddie shares that they're almost one year old who used to sleep independently and settle quickly has recently started fighting her naps, waking from her nap hysterical after one sleep cycle and waking early for the day. Daycare and the babysitter can settle her to sleep fine as well as resettle when she wakes after one sleep cycle.
but for Maddie, it just will not happen and she'll have 30 minutes of sleep for the entire day or she'll fall asleep in the car. Her average sleep duration has changed from 14 to 12 hours in the past few weeks, prompting Maddie to transition her from two naps down to one. Maddie has been using the supported accelerated approach, which worked previously, but now her little one either plays or becomes increasingly distressed when left alone.
She says, is it too early to transition to one nap? And she's got a few questions. Maybe I'll read them all out and we'll sort of work through them. She asks, are there alternative settling methods to try? Could something other than sleep pressure be causing the sleep issues like separation anxiety? Could rapid development like walking and talking be affecting her sleep?
Dr Laura (24:37)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Maddie, it sounds like you're in a tricky spot and perhaps a little bit like one of the other members earlier who I think our first one from May who's had a stretch of really great sleep and then when it falls over it can feel even more overwhelming than the way you were when it first started happening. And also it's really hard when your baby wakes up hysterical.
Dr Fallon (25:13)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (25:24)
from a nap and you don't understand why. So yeah, I do feel for you. It sounds like there is a lot going on. It isn't too early to drop to down to one nap. Your child, I mean, potentially is already one year of age now since we received your email. And some children will, some babies will drop down to one nap from around 12 months of age.
Some even a little bit earlier if they've got a lower sleep need. So if your baby doesn't have a really low sleep need, then I'd be thinking about, and so still needs to have two naps, just making sure that both of them are shorter naps. So if you could trim one of them, then I'd be looking at doing that. But in Maddie's instance, it sounds like she's made the transition to one nap.
because she's ticking a lot of the signs that she's ready to move to one nap. I'm curious that how she's responding to settling when you're trying to settle her, Maddie. And it does make me think if there is separation anxiety, to be honest, as us reading it, I was just thinking, are there something has changed with this little one? Yeah.
Dr Fallon (26:43)
Yeah. Yeah. Or she's
at some point figured out that mum might do something different. Whereas the babysitter and daycare might've just stuck to their guns. So sometimes if there's just one set where we, we very, excuse me, very what we do, they're like, Ooh, I'm going to remember that there is another option available. that could be a factor as well, but it is one of the things Maddie said, sorry, Laura, I've just jumped in, but I was just thinking about how,
Dr Laura (27:00)
Yes.
Yeah, that's okay.
Dr Fallon (27:11)
She's saying, you know, she used to be able to just leave, but now when she leaves, her daughter gets quite upset. And that, I think really speaks to that, yeah, potentially being that separation anxiety. And it made me think rather than changing to a whole new approach where it would involve you being more hands-on, it sounds like your daughter doesn't necessarily want hands-on support anyway, could just be going back to sitting on a chair near her cot while she falls asleep. So just staying present and not challenging.
Dr Laura (27:33)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (27:39)
that potential separation anxiety that could just give you a path forward. And during those intervals, sit there quietly, close your eyes. You know, they're only super brief. You're still going to be giving a heap of reassurance, but you're staying present. And that might, might be helpful at this point.
Dr Laura (27:41)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, and you could think about shushing or humming if you found that that helped both you and your daughter stay calmer during the intervals and then just, you know, wean off that, just start to shush or hum more quietly over a few settles to stop using that technique.
But I think that's probably going to be the way to go, Falon. think sticking with the one nap, because you've made that transition and she was showing all the signs that she was ready to drop to one nap, but probably staying in the room with her and potentially shushing or humming during the intervals to help her stay calm and you to stay calm. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (28:23)
Hmm.
Hmm. And you might find that
after a week of being in the room at bedtime, you can start to sit a bit further away or wander out briefly. Sometimes they just need us there for a week or two and then the separation anxiety eases and they're in a better place to make progress from there. And regards to the, you know, can rapid development affect sleep?
Dr Laura (28:50)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (28:59)
not in any kind of magical mystical way. Like I think sometimes we were like, they're talking a lot now and therefore they're going to be awake more. And it's like, no, it's more to do with if they suddenly have a new skill they want to try out in the cop. So yeah, it could be that they want to engage you in conversation all of a sudden, or they want to pull themselves up to Stan. Cause that's a new skill. but yeah, it's, don't think it has.
Dr Laura (29:16)
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (29:24)
Often these things don't have a huge impact on sleep overnight. It's more that at settling time, they might try out some of these things. And if you stay the course with your approach, it'll pretty quickly go away. I don't know that that's really got much to do with what Maddie's describing though.
Dr Laura (29:28)
Hmm.
No, I don't think so. I think it probably is separation anxiety. That's what really is jumping out at me. But Maddie, book in for a coaching call if you'd like us to do a deeper dive into what's happening for your toddler. And, you know, just take some solace in the fact that she has previously been able to sleep independently and settle quickly. And so you'll be able to get back there again, just making some tweaks to
Dr Fallon (29:42)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (30:07)
just respond appropriately to perhaps some increased fears that she has at the moment.
Dr Fallon (30:13)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (30:14)
All right, our next question is from Belinda. She has a just turned one year old who recently... Another one! Yeah, that's got a few! Yeah!
Dr Fallon (30:22)
Another one! There's been lots of these this week.
What are all these one year olds up to? Some kind of conspiracy. Yeah!
Dr Laura (30:28)
Yeah, there was a memo. A memo went round like embossed
So Belinda's one year old recently went through a month of illness with infections and needing to take antibiotics. gosh, that's tough Belinda. And during that time, of course, he woke needing milk and comfort. But now he's better. It's two to three weeks later, and he's still waking up between two and five a.m. for a bottle.
that goes back to sleep immediately. He's in daycare full time. He sleeps for two one hour naps during the day and goes to bed somewhere between seven and 730 sleeping until six or seven in the morning. And Belinda has three questions. I think maybe I'll just read them all out at once, Fallon. So Belinda says, how can I eliminate that habitual night feed?
Dr Fallon (31:20)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (31:26)
adding that he seems healthy and well fed so she doesn't think that he needs it anymore. Could he be getting too much sleep during the day? Is that why he's waking up overnight for that bottle? And should they reassess his sleep patterns? I guess lock his sleep again.
Dr Fallon (31:48)
Yeah, yeah.
So it sounds like Belinda's got some doubts about around the daily rhythm. So it wouldn't hurt to keep a sleep diary and just have a look at what's that average sitting at. Now that he's one year old, it might be that he's quickly moving towards dropping that second nap. But you know, you could just trim down that second nap if you need to. So, you know, have a look at his sleep diary and follow the unique sleep needs chapter so that you can get a bit of a sense of where his sleep needs are sitting at at the moment. That habitual night feed.
Dr Laura (32:06)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (32:18)
Yeah, really interesting. So even in a really healthy toddler, if they are always offered a feed at night, they're really clever at modulating, not consciously, their bodies are just clever at making sure they are meeting their calorie intake needs. So when we add calories at night consistently, they start to dial back the daytime calories because they know, well, I'm going to wake overnight and I'm going to have this little top up. So
Dr Laura (32:29)
Mm-hmm
Mm.
Dr Fallon (32:43)
You could just completely eliminate it. You've got that option. He's old enough. You could just say, okay, we're not doing that feed. I'll offer him a sippy cup of water in case he's thirsty. Um, and then it's just a resettle. And after two nights without that feed, he'll probably just never wait for it. Hopefully ever again. Just, you know, feeds will be a thing of the past as they used to be. Um, if that feels too hard, you can gradually push it towards morning. So set a time like, okay, tonight it's going to be 3 a.m. or later and then 4 a.m. or later, 5 a.m. and keep pushing it along.
Dr Laura (32:56)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (33:10)
Or you can gradually, if it's a bottle feed, can gradually reduce the amount in the bottle. Or if it's a breastfeed, gradually reduce the time of the feed. These are the age where I think you could probably just be really brave and just drop the feed. Give him some cuddles, sipping up a water. No, we're not having a feed now and work on resettling. Because I think, you know, it's two tricky settles, two nights, you're done. But yeah, there's a few options there for you, Belinda. And these are all described in Sombelle in more detail as well.
Dr Laura (33:22)
Mm.
Yeah. Hmm.
Dr Fallon (33:39)
If you want to do a bit of reading to work out which way you'd like to drop that feed. But definitely can be done.
Dr Laura (33:45)
Yeah
awesome. Great, should we move on to the next question?
Dr Fallon (33:48)
Yeah, good.
Yeah, so we have Jackie who has a nearly two year old. She says the room is currently pitch black. Is there an age or stage we would suggest introducing a night light?
Dr Laura (34:05)
Good question, Jackie. So generally, nightlights are used for one of two reasons. One, that parents want to be able to see what they're doing. And if they're coming in and out of a room, often parents will start to use a nightlight so that they can not trip over things. The other reason is that people will, parents will introduce a nightlight if their child is starting to have nighttime fears.
so I'm guessing that you don't already have one. So you're not worried about tripping over things in the dark. so then I'd be thinking, is your nearly two year old having any nighttime fears? Are they expressing that they're scared of anything in their room, overnight? Are they waking up saying that they're scared? if they're not, then I wouldn't be, rushing to introduce a nightlight for no, you know, if there's no trigger to do it, but of course, if they are then yeah, absolutely.
Dr Fallon (34:59)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (35:05)
introduce a night light. What you would want to have, what you would want to do is have it on as your two year old goes to sleep and then it needs to stay on all night long, hence night light, because you don't want the level of light in the room to change once he's fallen asleep because then when he wakes up and the room is now dark, when it was previously light, he's going to potentially then be scared or at least notice that there's been a change and then that's going to cause him to call out to you.
Dr Fallon (35:26)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (35:33)
So yeah, just introduce it if he is having nighttime fears, but otherwise I wouldn't be rushing to do so.
Dr Fallon (35:41)
Yeah.
And get one where you can turn it down really, really low because in the middle of the night, even the dimmest nightlight can be so bright. I know, like I use a nightlight for my kids and it's only ever on in the hallway outside their rooms. Otherwise they'd never sleep. Cause those things are really bright in the middle of the night. You know, it can be a bit much. So yeah, definitely think about where you put it. and get one that's dimmable.
Dr Laura (35:49)
Yes, good point.
Yeah.
Yeah, and double
check if your child is having fears, and that's why you're introducing it. Just look where the shadows fall. If you do introduce a nightlight. We had a very funny incident where we once were looking after a somebody else's pet dog. And we had a nightlight in the hallway at the top of the stairs. And this tiny little sausage dog walks up the stairs. But the shadow that it
Dr Fallon (36:14)
Mmm.
Hahaha, nerd.
Dr Laura (36:35)
through, which is
like enormous grizzly bear coming up the stairs and the kids lost their minds. And then like follow it was like something out of a cartoon, then this little tiny little dog comes waddling over. So just think about if you do have like cats that might be going in and out of the room or anything like that, just make sure that the nightlight isn't going to throw shadows that are going to then freak your child out.
Dr Fallon (36:45)
Tiny little dog.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. And dark looming objects. Like I come from a very musical family. And I remember as a kid being petrified because my dad played a big double bass, like the really big upright ones. And it was always in the corner of this room. And to me in the dark, it looked like the most petrifying thing. I never thought to tell my parents that, but it petrified me for years. So I think, they don't tell us like what, what is it that they're scared of? So ask them as well. Say, is there anything that you don't like the look of in the night?
Dr Laura (37:09)
yes.
Aww yeah.
No, they don't. Mm, yeah.
Okay, so on to our next question. it's Teresa, who describes herself as a sleep deprived parent of a two and a half month, sorry, a two and a half year old toddler, plus a five month old. Seven days ago, they moved their toddler into bed and she now has long awake periods during the night, usually starting from around 3am and lasting two or three hours.
Dr Fallon (37:29)
Yeah, awesome.
my
goodness, no wonder you're exhausted.
Dr Laura (37:59)
Gosh, yeah, that's,
yeah. So she calls out for mum or dad and needs significant support to fall back to sleep, becoming upset if left alone. So Theresa or her partner tend to make sure that she's not in pain, doesn't have a wet nappy, sings a bedtime song multiple times, sometimes briefly rub her back or her head and then sits silently in the room until she appears to be asleep.
But during this time, their toddler will often say, I don't want to go to sleep or I'm not tired. So Theresa is really unsure about whether this behavior is a biphasic night, whether there's separation anxiety going on, or if it's the transition to the bed itself. And she says, should we just keep persisting as it's a big transition? And she needs more time or perhaps there's something else we can be doing.
Dr Fallon (38:53)
Hmm, I think that this change in sleep has very little to do. It's a coincidence that it's happened when you've moved her to a bed because you're there and you're giving her exactly what she wants. You're giving her that support and she still can't get to sleep. She's even talking about how she can't get to sleep. I would have a really close look at her daily rhythm because a lot of two and a half year olds just don't sleep well until they drop their day nap. So it could be
Dr Laura (39:02)
you
Mmm.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (39:20)
I haven't missed anything there. Have I don't think it mentions naps in there. So it could be time to either just dial that day nap back, make it much shorter, or maybe it is time to get rid of it. I definitely use the unique sleep needs chapter in Sombelle to figure out what's happening there. Look at her sleep needs and cater to that appropriately, because that is a very long split night and it's unusual for a child to be awake that long, even when we are giving them that support that they're looking for.
Dr Laura (39:21)
No.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (39:49)
once you've addressed that potential sleep pressure problem, I would choose an approach that is similar to what you're already doing. So could be like something like sitting in or guardian gate, where, know, it's, it sounds like, you know, something you just want to choose an approach. It's already similar to what you're doing. And while you're giving some support, it sounds like you can also be quite hands-off and just be sitting there at times.
Dr Laura (40:09)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Dr Fallon (40:15)
So yeah, I would definitely think about addressing a potential sleep pressure problem and then thinking about the settling because you're unlikely to make progress if there is a sleep pressure difficulty still there. What do you think, Laura?
Dr Laura (40:25)
Hmm. Yeah.
Yeah. I don't think that I would add anything different to what you've just said. Such a long overnight wake. Yeah, really is just telling us that something is off around the sleep pressure. I guess, the only thing I would double check is how was she during the day?
Dr Fallon (40:36)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (40:52)
you is she functioning well enough during the day is her health, you say you're checking for pain and wet nappy. So just making sure that there's nothing else going on. haven't introduced any foods or there's anything else that medical that might be going on for her. As long as there isn't then it's highly likely it's a sleep pressure issue and it is just a coincidence. She's now in her bed. Sometimes we find that toddlers
Dr Fallon (41:04)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (41:20)
were quite happy, they quite liked their cot, they were happy in there and potentially they were lying there awake sometimes overnight just playing with their comforter and we didn't notice. And then once they're in a bed, then it's a bit different, they're not so happy just lying there quietly. And then as parents, we become more aware of it, it could have been happening for a while, we just didn't know. So yeah, check out that unique sleep news chapter.
Dr Fallon (41:34)
Mmm.
Hmm. Yeah.
And if she has a long split night, don't let her sleep in. Don't let her have a longer day nap or you're just going to have a perpetual cycle of long split nights happening. Good luck, Theresa. Do reach out for a coaching call if that's persisting. Carla says, I have a seven week old and I'm trying to get her into the bassinet for day naps.
Dr Laura (41:49)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (42:03)
I have no problems settling her and having her sleep in the bassinet at night for the first and for the first morning nap, but I'm struggling in the day despite a darkened room routine, feeding, swaddling, et cetera. Is there anything more I can try?
Dr Laura (42:18)
Carla, you're in the trenches with a seven week old. Sounds like you're doing everything beautifully. Yeah, and I would be perhaps just looking to see if your little one can stay awake for a little bit longer as the day goes on, because the wake windows do start to get a little bit longer, like we said in one of the other answers later on in the day.
Dr Fallon (42:24)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (42:41)
And it may be that your baby just wants to be awake. know, perhaps if you were doing hour long wake windows earlier on in the day, it's more like an hour and a half, even two hours towards the tail end of the day. And yeah, it sounds like you're doing the best with the darkened room swaddling, et cetera.
Dr Fallon (42:59)
Hmm. It
just takes a lot of practice at that age, doesn't it? So don't feel like you're failing. If you're practicing, it's all leading to something. it's just a little tricky at that age. So keep going, Carla, you're going to be okay. And as they get older, it does get easier to really master those bassinet knaps.
Dr Laura (43:07)
Yeah.
Yeah, it does.
Okay, our next question is from Sarah who has a three and a half month old baby and she's been putting a new daily rhythm in place for about two weeks. And she writes that her baby seems so sleepy during the day leading up to nap time. She says, I have to really distract her or even wake her up to keep her from sleeping beyond her four 40 minute naps a day. I feel like I spend, I feel like a lot of my day is spent walking around the house or the park.
holding a cranky or sleepy baby trying to distract her. So my question is, is this normal and expected when implementing a new daily rhythm? Is this what I'm meant to be doing? When can we expect our baby to adjust?
Dr Fallon (44:02)
Yeah, really good question. So I'd be thinking, what are your goals overall, Sarah? So a lot of parents will work on that daily rhythm because they're trying to increase sleep pressure so that they can work on their cot or bassinet settling goals. So sometimes parents work on the daily rhythm, but they don't do the work on independent settling for whatever reason. Maybe they just don't feel like it yet. But what can happen is we're building up higher sleep pressure.
without giving our baby the skills they need to be able to actually start to link some sleep cycles to have more consolidated sleep overnight. So they wake a bit more refreshed and can power through the day a bit more easily. Or maybe, you know, Sarah's baby needs to have a longer nap, but just can't quite do it yet. So if your goal, you know, we never want to build up sleep pressure and keep it sleep pressure really high without giving a baby the skills to be able to have, you know, to link some sleep cycles and do better overnight.
Dr Laura (44:39)
Mm.
Hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (44:56)
So
if you still have the work to do on cot settling, that's one of your goals, then do it now while sleep pressure is so high, because you'll likely have a much easier time of it. If it's not your goal right now, I think you need to relax the schedule because like you say, and it says this in Sombelle as well, if your baby is just constantly exhausted and a daily rhythm isn't working for you, it's definitely time to think about either adding a bit more sleep in. So maybe one of those naps is a bit longer. There's a million different tweaks that you could make.
Dr Laura (45:05)
Mm-hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (45:26)
but yeah, really important if you feel like you've met your cot settling goals, especially like if you've, if you've done the work on the daily rhythm, you're now they're settling beautifully in their cot. Maybe the nights are going brilliantly, but they're exhausted. you definitely, definitely need to add a bit more sleep back into that schedule. If you've achieved those goals, we want to see, can they actually manage a bit more sleep than what we thought they could?
Dr Laura (45:39)
Mm.
Mm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (45:51)
So
yeah, it's a bit of a convoluted answer because it depends what Sarah's goals are and how far she's gotten with those. but it sounds challenging, Sarah. So definitely, and this goes to any parent who's really grappling with this. podcast isn't always the best platform for giving you a really precise answer for your baby. In fact, I'd say it's just not, it's very general advice because we can't see their sleep diary. We can't do a full assessment.
Dr Laura (45:56)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (46:15)
so if you're feeling like you're really struggling, a coaching call is just, it's not a luxury. It's actually just what you need to do to get it all lined out. And then you can have good sleep and move on. Cause otherwise we spend too long sitting in the trenches and it's agonizing. I feel very sorry for Sarah.
Dr Laura (46:21)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, I do as well.
So it isn't I guess it isn't normal and expected that you would be, you know, two weeks in still feeling like this, that you're spending all this time walking around the house or the park. So yeah, we don't want to hear that that's, you know, what your life is looking like at the moment, because it very quickly gets very narrow.
Dr Fallon (46:42)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (46:56)
and hard for everyone. So yeah, do book in for a coaching call so that we can help you out of those trenches and yeah, work out what your goals are and how we can help you achieve them and bring a little bit more light back to your days.
Dr Fallon (47:14)
Yes.
All right. We've got five questions left. Laura, let's race through. can do this. We have Natasha who's seeking guidance on transitioning her 21 month old from one nap to no naps. Over the past month, she's become increasingly difficult to settle for naps resulting in later nap times and later bed times. Sometimes she skips a nap entirely but coats well. While on one occasion she fell asleep at 5pm and slept for 13 hours straight.
Dr Laura (47:17)
Woo, okay. Yeah.
Hmm.
Hmm.
wow. Yes!
Dr Fallon (47:44)
So she's in that little transitional phase, think.
Bedtime and nap time has become very distressing for her and for Natasha as well. She says, I've struggled with the idea of capping the nap at 30 minutes because of how hard it is to even get her to nap. So Natasha's question is, when I do drop the nap totally, do I drop? I'm gonna start that again. She says, my question is, when do I drop the nap totally versus?
Dr Laura (47:54)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (48:13)
Copping a very late bedtime for a few more weeks or months. Why does that feel like a tongue twister Laura? What do you think?
Dr Laura (48:19)
I don't know.
So Natasha, yeah, gosh, really hard. 21 months is very young to drop the nap completely. But like we always say on this podcast, there's a wide range of normal. So some children are going to be outside of the normal range. So it may be that your 21 month old is ready to drop.
Dr Fallon (48:36)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (48:49)
their nap. In fact, one of my maternal and child health nurses from when my children were babies, heard one of her four or five children had dropped naps entirely at 18 months. And I always took great comfort in that because she just sort of...
Dr Fallon (49:00)
Mm.
Yeah. Well, my eldest dropped
his like a few months before he turned two. He was totally in best sleeper. He's always been the best sleeper. Yeah. So it can be fine.
Dr Laura (49:08)
Yeah, and totally fine. Yeah. So
yeah, so it can be absolutely fine, Natasha. So it may be that your baby is just outside of that normal range and they're ready to drop the nap altogether. The fact that you describe that your toddler, as a little girl by the sounds of it, she copes really well when she doesn't have the nap, does suggest that it's worth giving it a go.
Dr Fallon (49:33)
Hmm.
Yeah. Give it a wake maybe.
Dr Laura (49:36)
And I tend to agree with you.
Yeah, Natasha, you're taking a long time to get her to settle. It's not a nice experience for either of you. And so I can understand your hesitancy about waking her after 30 minutes, because it probably will take longer than that to settle her. And you'd only want to cap it to 30 minutes if she only has short sleep cycles as well, because she'll be more irritable if you give her half a sleep cycle in the middle of the day. So I would say give it a whirl for a week.
Dr Fallon (49:49)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (50:05)
and see how she gets on. And if it hasn't worked out, then bring it back. But I would say red hot go. Yeah. Would you Fallon? Yeah.
Dr Fallon (50:05)
Mm. Yeah.
Yeah. Yep. Yeah. No, I completely agree. I reckon
you'll get a longer night and that might be heaven. You know, she adds that nap to her nighttime sleep. Even if it is just a little bit longer night, it'll feel great.
Dr Laura (50:21)
Yes.
Yeah.
Okay, so Jessica's written in and she says, I was just strategizing the nap drop with my partner when he pointed out that this week is the end of daylight saving for us Victorians. Should I be waiting until our baby has adjusted to the new time before attempting to drop to one nap? Or should we just rip the bandaid off and do it all at once?
Dr Fallon (50:54)
Okay. So my brain is doing that thing, you know, that mean with a lady and those equations above her head. I'm a meme right now. Um, so in adjusting to daylight savings ending, you're potentially stretching them, keeping them awake a bit longer to adapt their body clock. If you're trying to do that on less day sleep, certainly going to be a lot harder. So maybe just focus on the daylight savings change first once they've adapted.
Dr Laura (51:00)
yeah.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (51:22)
then make that switch. But sometimes you don't get a choice. If your sleep is absolutely awful and you've really got to drop the nap, just do it. It'll be fine. You have a few wobbly days, but they'll get through it.
Dr Laura (51:29)
Mm.
Yeah, but if
you have a choice, I think that the summary is keep the two naps until Sunday and then drop it after that. But if you don't have a choice, as in she's just dropping it or he's just dropping it, then go with it. You might just have a wobbly bit of time. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (51:43)
Yeah.
Mm.
Yeah, that's it. Okay. So Melinda has a four month old who wakes every hour after bedtime. my goodness. I feel tired on behalf of these parents. she says we think he has a 14 hour daily rhythm and he currently catnaps. He has two hour wake windows and I've tried increasing and decreasing these, but nothing is helping those short naps. The only way he sleeps longer is in the pram.
Dr Laura (51:55)
Okay.
gosh. Yes.
Dr Fallon (52:19)
He can self-settle, just cannot link his cycles. Could these short naps and lack of daytime sleep be causing these wakes? He's pretty happy during the day, just not sure where to start to fix these hourly wakes. He does have two feeds during the night, one at about midnight and then another at 4 a.m. Pretty normal for a four month old. And bedtime is around 8 to 9 p.m. and he wakes around 7 a.m. I think it actually is a sleep pressure issue.
Dr Laura (52:41)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (52:48)
from the sounds of it? What do you think though, Laura?
Dr Laura (52:48)
Yeah, I think it is. Yeah,
I think so. Melinda, I wonder if you have been receiving advice about the kind of sleep to get sleep and because he's not getting enough daytime sleep, that's why he's waking overnight. I would say that he's, it just doesn't work like that. I would say he's probably a lower sleep needs baby. When you say that you think he has a 14 hour daily rhythm, I wonder if
Dr Fallon (52:59)
Mmm.
just doesn't work like that.
Dr Laura (53:18)
what it actually is. So it may be that some days he does have 14 hours, but it may be that other days he has much less than that. So we really would check out that unique sleep needs chapter and then log his sleep so that you do have a really clear idea of what his average sleep needs are. And you may be surprised to see that it's a little bit lower than 14 hours. And he's probably then doing short naps and is a
Dr Fallon (53:20)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (53:47)
awake during the night just because he doesn't need as much sleep as some other babies his age.
Dr Fallon (53:52)
Yeah, I agree. And sleep needs drop really quickly across the first few months. So even if you measured 14 hours a month ago, it could be entirely different now. So do measure it. The other thing I would say too, is a lot of parents say, I tried longer awake windows. I tried shorter ones. You know, I've had a bit of a go. No, you need to be totally consistent for a week. That's how long it's going to take your baby's circadian rhythm to adjust. If you try one day with two and a half hours awake or something like that between the naps,
Dr Laura (54:02)
Yeah, true. Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (54:20)
And then the night's terrible. It doesn't mean that the changes you made don't work. They haven't had time to work, not even slightly. They, know, three, four days minimum until you're going to actually find out if it impacts the night. So work on that daily rhythm, stick to it, and then you'll start to get a sense of things. But waking, you know, hourly after bedtime. So false starts by the sounds of it definitely is a sleep pressure issue in there.
Dr Laura (54:32)
Mmm.
Mm.
Dr Fallon (54:46)
so yeah, work through that Melinda again, could be a good one for a coaching call if you're really stuck on it. but hopefully that will come together quickly.
Dr Laura (54:51)
Yeah.
Okay, and our next question is from Maria, who is seeking guidance on how many naps their baby should have by age. So their son who's almost six months old has lower sleep knees and is showing signs of being ready to drop from three naps to two naps, as he's strongly resisting the third nap. Maria wants to ensure that she's not transitioning him too early. And with lights and confirmation on the typical number of naps expected at different
ages and stages until naps are no longer needed.
Dr Fallon (55:30)
So the daily rhythm charts in Slumbell will show you how many naps your child might need depending on their age and what their sleep needs actually are. So always be guided by those because it's gonna vary a lot depending on your child's unique sleep needs. Six months old is not too young to be dropping to two naps. Lots of babies and especially low sleep needs babies, they will drop to two naps a little earlier.
Dr Laura (55:42)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (55:55)
Those with a higher sleep need, might not be until seven or sometimes even eight months. Um, but I'd say you're right on track there, Maria. Um, so yeah, if you're seeing some signs, they're ready, they're ready. Go for it. Good luck. Good. Um, and the last question we have is from Javel and Tanya. Um, they joined Sombelle just before their baby was diagnosed with food protein induced proctocolitis.
Dr Laura (56:07)
Yeah. Okay.
Dr Fallon (56:24)
They pause changing anything whilst they were navigating that, which is fair enough because their baby probably was experiencing some pain. It's an issue with the gut. Their baby's now five months old. Excuse me. And they're wondering if they're now able to start working through some of the materials. They write that their bub is fully breastfed and mum has removed dairy and soy from her diet with a plan to start solids soon.
Dr Laura (56:31)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (56:48)
Babies sleep has deteriorated again with periods of intense crying at bedtime, frequent wakes and broken sleep. So they're wondering if we have any advice and would we suggest that they schedule a coaching call.
Dr Laura (57:03)
Yeah, look, Javel and Tanya Gosh, you've gone through a rough period and Fallon really knows what this is like because she's one of her children when they were a baby, had some severe gut issues. So you're probably, yeah, you're probably feeling somewhat shell shocked by the whole thing. So I think a coaching call might be a good idea because it can feel really daunting to make changes to how...
Dr Fallon (57:11)
Mmm.
Yeah, it's super tough.
Dr Laura (57:31)
where your baby sleeps on the back of experiencing that really tricky time where your baby would have been in pain and yeah.
Dr Fallon (57:37)
Yeah, it's traumatizing.
It's so hard to see a baby in pain. It's just the worst thing. surround yourself with as much support as you can. Definitely.
Dr Laura (57:48)
Yeah. look, once it sounds like he's now he's got his diagnosis, he's doing well. So as long as he's not in pain anymore, then absolutely you can start using the program. So begin to start at the unique sleep needs chapter, get a sense of how much sleep your little one needs and start to make any adjustments that might be necessary to the daily rhythm.
And then think about what your goals are, whether you do want to work on cot settling or bassinet settling and or changing the number of fees that he has overnight, whatever it is that your goal is, just use the action plan to think through what steps you might take. And if you would like to talk it through with Fallon, that would be totally understandable and a reasonable decision to make. So once you've created your draft action plan, then book in to see Fallon.
and talk it through with her.
Dr Fallon (58:48)
Yeah.
And I think as well, you know, just be thinking about more gradual approaches because I know there will be times when you're not sure if your child has pain, you're just going to be like, they're crying. What is it? Is it pain when you've had a child who's sick, you're always going to be doubting thinking, but what if they're in pain? Maybe I shouldn't persist. They could be pain. You're going to have those uncertainties. And when that's the case, I would go for a gradual hands-on approach so that if you're worried about pain, you can sit there and go, well, I'm still giving them so much support.
Dr Laura (59:04)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (59:17)
to get to sleep and you've got full control over how quickly or slowly you phase that support out. And I think that's really important when you have been on a roller coaster and had a really challenging time and you know, it's something you'll still be navigating some ups and downs as you introduce solid foods. So you just want to be gentle on yourself for sure. Amazing. We did it, Laura. We got through all these wonderful questions. these are such good questions. I love, love, love them.
Dr Laura (59:23)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Woohoo!
Yeah, they are really
good.
Dr Fallon (59:48)
Yeah, thank you to all the parents who sent those in this week. Yeah, it's just terrific. They're such intelligent questions and I know that there'll be people listening in who benefit from hearing the answers as well. So thank you for that. Thank you to Fiona who bought us three coffees last week. It was so lovely to get those. We so appreciate it and all of the lovely kind words.
We've had some lovely reviews come in as well and lots of people liking and sharing the podcast, which is amazing. I know a lot of you jumped on our toddler webinar that we did for the Raising Children's Network last week. That was a huge hit. Oh my gosh, I love doing those presentations. It is a joy. And on that note, in June, I'm doing two baby sleep webinars for the Raising Children's Network. One for younger babies, one for older babies.
Dr Laura (1:00:15)
Yes.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (1:00:35)
and they're going to be in a different format. It's going to be a bit more of a Q &A type session. So I'm really looking forward to that. So if you don't follow us on social media, go and do it so that you know when those are coming up. Yeah, so I'm a little bit terrified, but mostly really looking forward to those.
Dr Laura (1:00:35)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah,
well, this kind of this podcast that we have where we're getting all of these questions every week is, you know, we used to kind of read. Yeah, it's good training, basically. Yeah, we used to spend much more time when we only got a handful of questions coming through, we'd be able to spend more time thinking through the answers. And now we get so many we just
Dr Fallon (1:01:01)
Good training.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (1:01:14)
Yeah, we're
just much quicker at it now. So you're well trained, Fallon. I'm sure you're going to do a great job.
Dr Fallon (1:01:17)
Yeah.
I feel there'll be a day when I'll go, okay, Laura, there's only 30 questions to get through in this week's podcast. I think we'll get to a point though, where we will have to combine questions where it'll be something like, you know, this person, these three parents all want to know about dropping a night feed. Let's talk through some strategies that might have to become a little bit more broad if we start to get a little overloaded. And of course the Sombelle materials address so much of what we talk about.
Dr Laura (1:01:24)
You
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:01:46)
anyway, so if you love what we do, please buy us a coffee. The link is in, the, what are they called? Show notes. That's the word I'm looking for. Link is in the show notes. leave us a review, you know, come and join Sombelle if you're wanting that extra support, book a coaching call if you're member and you want some extra hands on support. and yeah, hit the subscribe or the follow button on the podcast because we'd love to have you following along. So thanks everyone for tuning in and you'll hear from us again next week.
Dr Laura (1:01:53)
Show notes.
Thanks everyone, bye bye.
