Fallon Cook (00:00)
If you settle your baby or toddler at bedtime only for them to wake up less than two hours later, then you're familiar with false starts. False starts happen when babies or toddlers don't begin their nights with a long stretch of deep sleep. They may have this long stretch of deep sleep later in the night, or maybe not at all. Well, today we unpack why false starts happen and how you can fix them.
Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast companion to the Sombelle Paediatric Sleep Clinic programs created by us. I'm Dr. Fallon Cook and I'm here with Dr. Laura Conway and we're the directors of Infant Sleep Australia. Laura, let's dive straight in. How common do reckon it is to see babies or toddlers in the clinic that are having false starts?
Dr Laura (00:50)
it's super common. Most sleep diaries that I see will have false starts logged, not necessarily every day, but a number of times a week and sometimes every day. And what often happens is that when I get a sleep diary through for follow-up appointments, those false starts have usually disappeared. So they are relatively straightforward to resolve.
Fallon Cook (00:55)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (01:18)
which is excellent and parents are usually delighted because it means that they've got their evenings back, they can pop their little one down and then they can actually know that their little one is down and they can then...
Fallon Cook (01:19)
Yeah.
Yes.
It makes such
a difference, doesn't it? Like when you've been parenting all day, you just want to know that when they go to sleep, it sticks for a while so that you can like just, I don't even know. Like I don't even go and watch Netflix anymore. I'm just like, I just need time for me to think like, yeah, it's so important for parent wellbeing.
Dr Laura (01:40)
Yes!
Yeah,
So Fallon, why don't you let us know why false starts happen?
Fallon Cook (01:53)
Mmm.
Yeah. So false stats almost always indicate that there's something off with the daily rhythm because a well functioning circadian rhythm will prioritize having, you know, three to four hours of pretty deep uninterrupted sleep at the beginning of the night.
Dr Laura (02:04)
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (02:14)
I often joke to families, it's the sort of sleep where a tornado could pass by and your baby or your toddler is just completely oblivious. Like they are really down because usually we do start the night with this deep sleep before we start to really cycle up and down, you know, between sleep cycles. So it is a good clue that something's a little out with the daily rhythm. ⁓
Dr Laura (02:18)
Hahaha
Yeah.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (02:36)
And it usually mean, know, when they're not starting the night with this deep sleep, it usually means that sleep pressure is just too low at the beginning of the night. And what can cause that are several factors. So it could be that the baby or toddler is just getting overall too much day's sleep. So they're not getting that buildup of high enough sleep pressure to really get into deep sleep. Sometimes they've just got too many naps going on. You know, they really are ready to drop a nap. you know, and it's, it's really time for it to happen or.
Dr Laura (02:44)
Yeah. ⁓
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (03:05)
The naps can just be getting way too close to bedtime. So they're not awake long enough before bed to build up that sleep pressure that's needed. So it really just comes down to not having that sleep pressure or sleep drive built up to the high enough level that they can really get into that deep sleep. But I will say there are exceptions and I've had one of these in clinic lately, very, very rare, but I do feel like there's the odd baby or toddler where sleep pressure seems like it's high enough. We're doing kind of all the right things.
Dr Laura (03:11)
Mmm.
Mm-mm.
Fallon Cook (03:34)
But there is, you know, every now and then a baby or toddler who seems so exquisitely sensitive to how and where they fell asleep that no matter how high the sleep pressure is, if they were held to sleep or fed to sleep, they just keep pinging awake, really upset that they've been transferred ⁓ over to their cot. So normally, you know, I would say even in a baby who's only ever known, you know, feeding to sleep.
Dr Laura (03:43)
Mm.
Yes.
Fallon Cook (04:00)
They will typically sleep pressure is where it needs to be. They start the night with a long stretch of deep sleep before they start to wake. But I think there are some exceptions, but overall I would say to parents, look, it's generally going to come down to the daily rhythm and really figuring out ⁓ how to work at best for your child. ⁓ But I think really important question, Laura, if parents are listening in and they're like, my gosh, false starts happen all the time in my little one. What can parents actually do about it? Talk us through.
Dr Laura (04:18)
Hmm.
Yeah,
yes, it's all very well and good we saying it's simple to resolve and they're not following up with how to do it.
Fallon Cook (04:34)
Yeah, just tweak the daily rhythm. Parrots like I'm
too exhausted. How do I even know what to do? Yeah.
Dr Laura (04:41)
Yeah,
so if you are experiencing false starts with your little ones, the first thing I would do is check how many naps they are having each day and is that appropriate for their age. So let's say that your baby is five to six months old and they're still having four naps a day, then I would say it's time to drop them down to three naps. Likewise, if they're eight to nine months old and they're still having three naps a day.
and then they're having the false starts, it will be time to drop them down to two naps. And then we're thinking about those babies who are just venturing into toddlerhood, 12 months or older, having false starts. It is likely to be time to move them to the one nap a day. So that's thinking about the number of naps. Then the next thing to consider is how much day sleep they are getting.
and how much out of their overall sleep need that is. So if they have a 13 hour sleep need and they're having four or five hours worth of daytime sleep, it's pretty likely that they're having a little bit too much and they can't build the sleep pressure up high enough for bed. So you may need to reduce the duration of some of their naps and push more sleep into the nighttime. And the final thing to consider
would be how long do they have between waking up from their final nap and going down for the start of the night. Now that is usually the longest period of time that your baby will be awake in the day. So you know if your baby is four months old maybe they can manage an hour and a half to two hours awake before they go down for the first nap but before bedtime that wake time might be two and a half or three hours for example.
and it will be much longer than for older babies. So just make sure that that last wake window is the longest one to give them enough time to build that sleep pressure high enough to help resolve that false start that they're having at the start of the night.
Fallon Cook (06:57)
think that's a really common problem actually is I see a lot of parents who are like, ⁓ they're awake a really long time before bed. Like, you know, they're seven months old and they're awake for three hours before bed. And I'm like, no, that's fine. That's completely normal. In fact, I'd say that's kind of a minimum amount of time we want ⁓ awake before bed. And then the other thing I see parents get tripped up on is they're like, no, we have to have a nap.
Dr Laura (07:12)
Yes!
Yes.
Fallon Cook (07:24)
quite late in the day because in the lead up to bedtime, they're getting quite cranky and grumpy and you know, they're just not really that happy. And I'm like, that's what we want. That's normal. Like all babies, all toddlers are cranky in the evening. And I think some parents don't realize how normal that is to be cranky and worn out by the end of the day. And if their baby isn't perfectly settled and happy, they go, my gosh, my gosh, you know, we've got to have a nap later in the day so they can be happy up to bedtime.
Dr Laura (07:35)
Yes.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (07:52)
⁓ but get used to it because toddlers, especially, know, they are cranky at the end of the day. They're hard to deal with. They can get upset over minor things. They're really running out of steam. ⁓ it doesn't mean you need to add a nap late in the day. ⁓ that's actually normal and a good sign.
Dr Laura (08:03)
Yes.
No, and an actual fact.
Yes, no, and an actual fact I was going to say, Fallon, that the...
then go to bed, they can't get into their deep restorative sleep easily. They're having sometimes multiple false starts, where they spring awake after half an hour and then half an hour later and then half an hour later and everyone's pulling their hair out. Whereas if you actually just kind of condense all of those wake-ups and push that bedtime a little bit later so that they are having a bit longer before the start of the night.
Fallon Cook (08:20)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (08:38)
then they get into their restorative sleep much sooner. And then you'll find that over a few days, that level of crankiness at the end of the night, it won't go all together because we're all a bit tired and cranky before we go to bed, but it won't be as bad. So you can kind of get off that treadmill that you're experiencing.
Fallon Cook (08:50)
Mmm.
Yeah, exactly. Yes.
Yeah, it really is. It can can be challenging. Definitely. Look, I hope that's helpful if you're struggling with false starts. And a special thank you to Michaela who reached out on Instagram and actually asked us for this episode on false starts because they are really common. look, I mean, we say they're simple to fix. They're pretty quick to fix. But sometimes, you know, especially when we've got babies that have
Dr Laura (09:15)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (09:23)
unusual sleep needs really high or really low. It can be really tricky to navigate what a good daily rhythm actually should look like. So ⁓ if you're a Sombelle member, you would already know that the unique sleep needs chapter is absolutely the place to go to build out the perfect daily rhythm that really works for your little one. ⁓ So that would be my start point. And if you're still having trouble, please book in for a coaching call because often these sorts of daily rhythm issues are fixed so quickly.
Dr Laura (09:30)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (09:51)
Laura and I and the rest of our practitioner team, we can take one look at a sleep diary and just know, we just know instantly what we need to do. It's a finally honed skill after all of these years. So usually it is, you know, pretty quick to get these sorts of things back on track. And of course, if you're not a member of Sombelle but you're wanting extra support, maybe you want to work more one-on-one, book an initial appointment in our clinic and then whoever you work with, whether it's Laura or one of our practitioner team,
Dr Laura (09:52)
Mm.
Yes. Yeah.
Yes.
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (10:19)
You know, they'll do that full sleep diary assessment that they'll remove all the guesswork. And I think that's what parents want. They often come to coaching calls. know. And they'll be like, you know, I just, second guessing myself and I just want someone to say, right, this is the daily rhythm to follow. ⁓ and yeah, it's a relief when you walk away from an appointment with a really clear plan. So yeah, that support is there if you are having a really tricky time.
Dr Laura (10:23)
Yes.
Yes.
Yeah, for sure.
Fallon Cook (10:45)
Yeah, excellent. All right, well, let's dive into parent questions because there's quite a few this week and I know that some of them do involve false starts. In fact, I think this first one might. So let's dive in. We've got an email here from Kate who has a seven and a half month old who wakes around five times overnight. Wow. Often every two hours and with more frequent waking towards morning and occasional false starts. I was right. This is a false starts one.
Dr Laura (10:48)
Mm-hmm.
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yeah. Yeah.
Fallon Cook (11:12)
Kate currently resettles him overnight with feeds or cuddles. He totals around 12 and a half hours of sleep per 24 hours with two to two and a half hours of day sleep. Most days follow a two-nap rhythm around 9 to 9.30 a.m. and 1 to 2.30 p.m. with a third nap added if the second nap is a short one. On two-nap days his last wake window can stretch to four and a half to five and a half hours with a 7 p.m. bedtime and a 6 a.m. wake up.
He's currently in the two, sorry, the three to two nap transition and his rhythm has recently become quite inconsistent. Kate wants to know whether the frequent night waking could be related to sleep pressure, whether adjustments to day sleep or wake windows are needed and whether transitioning to two naps at this age may be too early. What do we reckon?
Dr Laura (12:02)
⁓ okay
Kate transitioning to two naps consistently at this age is really highly likely to resolve those false starts and those more frequent wakes that your little one is having towards morning. It's highly likely there's a sleep pressure issue going on here. If we're thinking about two hours worth of daytime sleep that leaves about
10 hours for overnight sleep, given that he's got a 12 hour sleep need or 12 and a half hour. Yeah, so maybe two and a half hours of day sleep and then that leaves 10 hours overnight plus a little bit extra for feeds. So that means that your 7.30 to 6 a.m. wake up would be about right. So well done. You've got the nighttime looking well. I would be dropping that third nap.
Prepare for a few cranky days as your baby's circadian rhythm adjusts like we just spoke about. But as the night's improved, so should his daytime mood. And being awake for four and a half hours before the start of the night, absolutely fine at this age. Kate, your baby might be closer to eight months now, depending on when you emailed this question through. And having longer.
awake before the start of the night is just something that happens as we as babies move towards dropping down to one nap once he's around 12 months of age so yeah be brave make that transition yeah did you have anything to add
Fallon Cook (13:34)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you've got this Kate.
Well, if the night wakes still are hanging around, I would just say it's time to work on cot settling. I think Kate mentioned she's resettling overnight with feeds or cuddles. If you're feeding or cuddling all the way back to sleep, that might be causing him to keep waking overnight. So you might need to dive into that a little bit if things aren't resolving, but yeah, good luck Kate. You've got this.
Dr Laura (13:46)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yes.
Yeah,
yay. Now, Katie has emailed, she has a nearly 17 month old with a sleep need of 11 hours and 45 minutes. She follows a usual routine of an 8pm bedtime, 6.45 wake up and a one hour nap. Occasionally the nap is only around 20 minutes.
often when her daughter falls asleep in the car and doesn't transfer well. Yeah, that can be really tricky and frustrating when that happens. And on those days, Katie has tried resettling multiple times, but without success. And by five o'clock, her daughter becomes very tired and cranky, struggles eating dinner and sometimes wakes overnight hungry. So Katie asked whether she can bring bedtime forward to around 7.20, 7.30 on those short naps.
Fallon Cook (14:30)
Mm.
Dr Laura (14:52)
days or whether it's better to push through to the usual 8pm. What do you reckon?
Fallon Cook (14:58)
I love this question, Katie. Look, I would say if you're really keen to keep a longer day nap, then aim as best you can to keep bedtime where it is so that you are really teaching your child circadian rhythm that a short nap is really not ideal because we're not going to be able to catch up with a super early bedtime. And often that really helps them to really settle into a longer nap.
Dr Laura (14:59)
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (15:20)
Of course that can be a bit tricky if you know you've got to get them in and out of the car and sometimes they're just like no my 20 minute kit took the edge off and I'm not going back to sleep. But it might just be for a little while we just have to work really hard not to do trips at nap time or to do trips at nap time but then just wait in the car until she's finished her nap. We've all done that many times before we sit there with the engine idling you know hoping that they stay asleep. Would you add anything to that one Laura?
Dr Laura (15:38)
Yes. Yes, we have. Yes.
No, other than if she's absolutely exhausted then potentially bring the bedtime 15 minutes earlier. If everyone is just over it that is not going to do a whole lot of difference at this time. ⁓ It's a case of waiting it out. It may be that given that your daughter has quite a low sleep need, Katie, that
Fallon Cook (15:58)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (16:16)
you've only got another few months left of her having a nap at all. So this can be a potential sign that nap days will be behind you soon. But good luck, Katie. I would be having some snacks or a coffee in the car.
Fallon Cook (16:33)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (16:39)
enjoying that bit of quiet time idling in the driveway to help her have that full hour nap on those days.
Fallon Cook (16:42)
Yes.
Yeah, I like that plan. All right. Adrienne wrote in and she has a 15 month old with an approximate 12 hour sleep need. He naps from around 1130 AM to 1230 PM, goes to bed at 7 PM, typically sleeping well until about three or 4 AM when Adrienne brings him into the parental bed until around 630 AM. He resettles independently earlier in the night.
Dr Laura (16:50)
Mmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (17:16)
Adrian wants to know whether bringing him into bed in the early morning hours has created a habit, whether she should persist with resettling him in the cot instead, and whether his sleep needs should be reassessed.
Dr Laura (17:29)
Hmm, whenever sleep gets wobbly, I think it's a really good idea to reassess sleep needs. So for anyone listening to this, if things have been going swimmingly and then they're getting wobbly and you're experiencing something like Adrienne describes, just log their sleep again for a week just to see if their sleep needs have changed and then make any adjustments to the daily rhythm that you need to. So it might be that bedtime might
need to move a little bit later or wake up a bit earlier ⁓ if ⁓ Adrian your baby's sleep needs have dropped. If you want to stop the co-sleeping from 3 or 4 a.m. which I'm assuming you do because that's what you've written in saying that you'd like to stop then yes it may well be best that you do move wake up to 6 a.m. which could be more achievable for him.
as that will be about 11 hours overnight and then the one hour nap takes it to 12 and you said that he's got a 12 hour sleep need. And after a few days of doing that, where the sleep pressure gets a bit higher by bedtime, then I would stop bringing him into bed with you if he continues to wake up.
There's a good chance after a few days he may stop waking up because the sleep pressure will be high enough to get him through until six in the morning rather than you trying to get to six thirty. But at this age, there is a chance that it's habit that he's coming up into light sleep and going, I quite want to come in with mum. And then you'll need to make the decision that it's not happening anymore.
Fallon Cook (19:09)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (19:15)
give him a big cuddle, sip of water, and then use whatever settling approach you want to and stick with it until he goes back to sleep. Also, of course, check that there's nothing else waking him at that time, so he's not too cold and there's not noise going on outside that would be waking him, but I suspect it is probably habit. Be prepared for him to push back and be a bit cross that he's not coming into your bed anymore in the morning.
Fallon Cook (19:38)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (19:43)
But that's OK. ⁓ It's perfectly reasonable to stop doing that. ⁓ Yeah, so.
Fallon Cook (19:49)
Yeah. And
I think that's where approach really comes into it too. Like don't just randomly go, okay, you know, it's 3am and I'm going to resettle in the cot. Come up with a plan beforehand. Decide exactly how you're going to approach it so that you can be so incredibly consistent. Cause when your toddler realizes, doesn't matter how cranky I get, mom or dad or my other caregiver is rock solid. They're here, they're supporting me, but they're just persisting with this repetitive calming reassurance.
Dr Laura (20:00)
Yes.
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (20:18)
That's
when they settle down quickly and kind of go, fine. Fine. You seem really sure about this mum. I'm going back to sleep, but it definitely, there will be some tricky moments, but stick to that daily rhythm. Even if it's a really tricky resettle, stick to the daily rhythm, get them up on time. That sleep pressure will build for the next night and it will get easier, hopefully nice and quickly for you, Adrienne.
Dr Laura (20:21)
Yes!
Yeah.
Yes.
Mm.
and avoid bringing
him into your bed. If he really pushes back, that can really set you back with toddlers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, make sure that when you've made that decision, you stick with it and then it's no more co-sleeping from then on. Yeah, good luck, Adrian. We have an email from Anna who has a four and a half month old.
Fallon Cook (20:47)
Yeah, I've got good memories at this age.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (21:05)
who needs about 11 and a half hours per 24 hours. So a low sleep need up here. He sleeps for around two hours across three daytime naps and sleeps between nine and nine and a half hours overnight, waking twice for feeds and once for a nappy change. She puts him to bed between eight and eight 30 with his last nap ending by five to five 30 PM. She has reduced night feeds.
to one at around midnight and one at three to four a.m and usually resettles him in the cot for any other wakes. From five or six a.m he wakes more frequently and becomes difficult to resettle though. He refuses the dummy and Anna often holds him from around 5.30 until that 6.45 wake up time after which he's cranky and falls back asleep during a feed.
So Anna wants to know whether this early morning pattern is habit driven, whether he may naturally want to wake up at this time and whether introducing a settling approach such as the accelerated method would help. What do we reckon? There's a lot here.
Fallon Cook (22:16)
Hmm. Well, there is a lot here.
so Anna, I would be thinking with two hours total day sleep, he's probably looking for about nine and a half hours of sleep overnight. So if he's going to bed at about 8pm, it kind of makes sense that he's starting to get pretty wakeful by 5am because he's kind of met his quota. ⁓ And often at that point, they are just kind of pretty dozy in your arms and a lot of parents will say, they'll doze if I hold them, if I try and transfer them to the cot, you know, they spring awake.
Dr Laura (22:35)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (22:47)
⁓
So that's something to think about. I think I'd also be thinking of kind of building these cot settling skills as well. ⁓ Sometimes when they're able to settle in their cot, they can add just a little bit more sleep to their 24 hours. So not all the time, but sometimes as they start to be a bit more comfortable in their cot, we do see that they can manage a little bit more sleep. ⁓ And then I think adjust bedtime as well. So.
Dr Laura (23:02)
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (23:12)
⁓ you know there's an 11 and a half hour sleep need you've reported we want to allow a little bit more in the daily rhythm to allow for some night feeds at this age but maybe with two hours total day sleep having something like an 8 30 p.m bedtime and a 6 30 a.m wake up is a little bit more ⁓ realistic and achievable so you know work on that for a few days we should see sleep pressure start to kind of build up and then if you go all in with working on some cot settling skills
Dr Laura (23:29)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Fallon Cook (23:38)
kind of show him that we're going to persist with resettling in the cot until 6.30 a.m. or as close as you can get. Often then, yeah, it all starts to really come together at that point. ⁓ Have I missed anything with that one, Laura?
Dr Laura (23:45)
Yeah.
I don't think so. I think that's, yeah, you've covered everything there. You may find that you're better rested as well, Anna, if you're not spending that last hour holding him in your arms. I always get a little bit nervous when I read that parents are doing that in terms of parental mental health.
Fallon Cook (24:08)
Mmm.
Yes.
Dr Laura (24:15)
Yeah, but if you're up every day from 5.30 and feeling like you have to sit there really quietly and also stay awake for over an hour, that's really going to take a toll on you, Anna. So don't feel guilty about wanting to address this and improve how long your little one sleeps for in the cot, for your wellbeing and also for your baby's safety.
Fallon Cook (24:23)
Yeah.
Mmm. Yeah, that's
a really good point because the risk of a SIDS incident definitely goes up when we're holding them at that time of the morning. It is really hard to stay awake. So yeah, by resettling in the cot, you're doing the right thing. Yeah. Good luck, Anna.
Dr Laura (24:52)
Yeah. ⁓
Fallon Cook (24:55)
We have a question
sent in from Mini who has a 16 month old who was previously sleeping through the night but has recently started waking around 4am. Mini introduced a 100ml bottle at this time and now wants to remove this association. He has also begun waking briefly at other points overnight, often sitting up and crying but usually resettling independently.
Minnie wants to know what might be driving this change, whether it's environmental, developmental or habit related and how best to remove the early morning feed without reinforcing the waking. it's a double edged sword that one, isn't it? Like, yeah, you're going to remove the feed. They're going to be really wakeful and really cross. But also by having the feed, you're kind of telling this circadian rhythm. Sure. Wake up. You know, there's something to be had here.
Dr Laura (25:31)
Mmm. Yeah, there it is.
Yes.
Yeah?
Fallon Cook (25:44)
⁓ You're definitely
Dr Laura (25:44)
Yes.
Fallon Cook (25:45)
going to need to listen to episode 117 on those early risings. But anyway, sorry Laura, you answer the question. This is your one.
Dr Laura (25:50)
Yes, that's okay.
So Mini, I'd say that as long as there have been no changes in your toddler's health status, it's unlikely that he needs that feed at 4am. His circadian rhythm will be suppressing his appetite overnight. And as long as his weight gains, fine, he's nothing major has happened during the day. Then
He doesn't need to have that 100 mils. So I would be thinking first of all environmental factors, so check when you're giving your little one dinner, make sure it's not too far away from bedtime and that the last feed of the night is close to him going into his cot.
So that you can reassure yourself that he's not hungry at 4 a.m. You know, this is half the time It's convincing ourselves that we're doing the right thing So as long as he's having a good dinner and having the last feed of the night Relatively close to bedtime. You can be pretty sure he's not going to be hungry at 4 a.m
As we've said before, this is a coldest part of the night. So just checking the room temperature isn't too cold. are heading, depending on where you are in Australia, if you're in Victoria, we're heading into winter. So it is a bit chilly. So ensuring that the, ⁓ that your little one isn't getting too cold and just checking that there's no noises waking your little one at 4am and reading through the chapters in Somme Bell that talk about troubleshooting those issues.
⁓ And once we know that those environmental things are taken care of, thinking about your little one's daily rhythm, has their sleep need changed, do we need to adjust bedtime so it's a little bit later to help him maintain his sleep until beyond 4am? And how long the nap is, for example, do we need to alter the nap duration or nap time?
then I'll be thinking about reducing the volume of the bottle over a few nights. So you're only giving them 100 mLs at the moment. maybe bringing it down to, it depends whether this is cow's milk or formula or what you're giving, but reduce it gradually over a few nights until it's virtually nothing and use a really consistent settling approach in the morning.
We can be sure he's not hungry, he's not thirsty because you've given him a sip of water, that the daily rhythm is appropriate for him and you can just be consistent, boring and predictable when he wakes up at four. We know he can resettle himself and in this way we're just ensuring that he learns that, it's not time to wake up and resettle him until 6am or whatever your wake up time is. Yeah, would you add anything there?
Fallon Cook (28:42)
Hmm.
Yeah, because his body's just,
yeah, I just think his body's realized there's some calories to be had at 4am and we just want to push all the calories back into the daytime again. often just really ramping up.
Dr Laura (28:57)
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (29:00)
the foods that they love in the daytime. Like if they're, I know most toddlers absolutely love a hot chippy. Maybe we're going to have a few extra chippies with dinner or something just to really like fill those tummy. So that's really easy for their body to go, we're getting all the calories we need in the daytime. ⁓ yeah. And maybe have a really busy physically active day. So they go into bed really worn out. That can also really help as well. You just need a couple of nights with no bottle and he'll forget about it again.
Dr Laura (29:03)
Mm-hmm.
Hahaha!
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Mm-hmm,
Fallon Cook (29:30)
Yeah, good luck.
Dr Laura (29:30)
yeah. Okay, so Gemma's emailed us. She has a six-month-old who previously averaged about 12 and a half hours per 24 hours. But over the past week, this has increased to 13 and a half to 14 hours, mainly because she's taking longer day naps. this is interesting. So Gemma wants to know whether it's normal for a baby's sleep need to suddenly increase by one to two hours.
Fallon Cook (29:47)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (29:58)
in a 24 hour period? I love this question.
Fallon Cook (30:01)
Yeah, it's, it's a terrific question. So the
very first thing you just want to think about is illness, like adding two hours of sleep per day consistently. And if your baby's really fatigued, sometimes that's the first sign that they're brewing something nasty. So do you keep that in mind? And if it's, you know, I don't know if you've got any of those kind of parent gut things where you think is something a little off, get your GP to check them out. So absolutely that's the first place my mind goes, but look,
Dr Laura (30:14)
Hmm.
you
Mmm. Mmm.
Hmm.
Fallon Cook (30:31)
assuming health is all fine and good. Typically we do see it go the other way. So sleep needs do tend to drop off across that first year. But it is possible for an increase to occur. It's just rare. So there's been some really fascinating science actually looking at trajectories of total sleep per 24 hours across that first year. And there are some babies that start low and gradually kind of increase. They're definitely not in the majority though. So don't get your hopes up.
Dr Laura (30:34)
Mm-hmm.
Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Hmm
No.
Fallon Cook (30:59)
listeners, but there are
some which is why we always say things are going well but you think they're bit tired add a bit more sleep in. I also think Gemma should be just checking that their baby isn't entering a cycle where and I've seen this you probably do too Laura quite often where some babies will begin to have like three or four days with heaps of sleep so they overshoot their sleep need.
Dr Laura (31:06)
Yes.
Mm.
Fallon Cook (31:21)
And it's followed
by three or four of the worst days where they're waking all the time. They're really undershooting that sleep average. So it's a bit of a see-saw up and down. You know, the average is in the middle. I don't know why I'm using my hands for a podcast, our, our 10 YouTube subscribers will love it. That's more than 10, maybe there's yeah, 30 or something, but, but you know, there's that average and they're kind of overshooting it, undershooting it, overshooting it, undershooting it.
Dr Laura (31:25)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Mmm.
Hahaha!
Yes.
Fallon Cook (31:48)
I would keep an eye on what the average kind of sits on over the next few weeks, Gemma. ⁓ And if they are cycling like that, which is a roller coaster for parents, just go, okay, we're picking that midpoint. We're going to work towards a steady daily rhythm that centers on that. ⁓ So yeah, it's great. I've, look, I've got everything crossed for you Gemma, that this is just an increase in sleep needs and you can enjoy those long day naps. Cause that is like the holy grail of early parenthood, I reckon.
Dr Laura (31:48)
Yes.
⁓ Mm. Mm-hmm.
Yes!
long day that's I love it I am always just so hopeful I'm ever the optimist for parents who have lower sleep need babies that maybe this one is going to be in that little group that does have an optic and you and I are always talking about when you've had one or two weeks of really excellent sleep then take your foot off the break add a bit more in because I'm always just so excited
Fallon Cook (32:21)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Yes. Yeah.
Dr Laura (32:41)
in case this is one of the babies that does end up needing more sleep than their starting point indicated. So let us know Gemma, we'll be really keen to hear if this is a real increase.
Fallon Cook (32:47)
Mmm.
Yeah,
yeah, yeah, for sure. All right, Cassie sent in a question. Cassie has a six and a half month old with a very low sleep need. Currently only 10 hours, 45 minutes per 24 hours.
She aims for approximately one hour 45 minutes of day sleep and nine hours overnight with one night feed and a 6am wake up time. He typically falls asleep after three hours awake in the morning for a 60 minute nap then struggles to stay awake for the next wake window often napping again around 12 or 1pm for a second nap. Cassie caps that nap at 45 minutes.
This leads to a very long final wake window and he has difficulty reaching his 8.30pm bedtime. He is also prone to falling asleep during feeds and in the car. When his day's sleep exceeds two hours, he wakes more overnight and has more false starts. Cassie has used the quick fade approach since he was four months old, but he still relies on hands-on support unless he's extremely tired. He can resettle independently overnight at times.
Cassie wants to know how to better optimize his daily rhythm to keep him comfortably awake during the day while maintaining enough sleep pressure for more settled nights. this is a hard one to answer without a sleep diary, but take it away, Laura. Good luck. Yeah.
Dr Laura (34:09)
Yeah, is. It is. Yeah, Cassie, I actually, I would actually love to have
a clinic session with you because, yeah, this is, this is tricky. What I would be thinking about is, first of all, acknowledging it's really hard when you have such a low sleep needs baby to get the daily rhythm right. And you're walking a tight rope that parents of high sleep needs babies never, never have to walk.
Fallon Cook (34:18)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (34:38)
And it's yeah, it's hard because you are recognizing that if your baby has more day sleep than two hours the nights fall over. From what you're describing your six and a half month old is sometimes awake for about seven hours between the end of the first, sorry, end of the second nap and bedtime.
Fallon Cook (34:50)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (35:07)
So I'm not surprised that he's prone to falling asleep in the car and during feeds What I would be tempted to do there's a couple of options and I think one is probably going to be quite controversial. I'll be keen to hear what you think I Would be wondering whether it would be worth returning to three short naps a day to break up that last long wake window so thinking three
Fallon Cook (35:31)
Yeah.
Dr Laura (35:36)
naps each of about one sleep cycle each, whatever that is. So you know if they're 45 minutes then it might be three 45 minute naps which does take them slightly over the two hours but then just adjust bedtime or wake up. Alternatively if you if you went to two naps because having the three was causing big problems with settling at night the other way to go would be to keep the naps as you already have them
Fallon Cook (35:41)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (36:05)
but to add a power nap later on in the afternoon to support him into a bedtime. And then it's not a whole sleep cycle. But it just is, it creates that bridge in that long awake time before bed. Now, parents, if the reason I said I'd love to see you in the clinic is that often when I present a couple of options like that, that are a little bit away from the more...
Fallon Cook (36:08)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (36:31)
generic advice we provide in the podcast is that parents, I can just see in their face which way would suit them best. Cause there's all, there's like a horrified look. They know. Yeah. No. Yes. Yeah. And they'll just go, absolutely not a power nap is like, you know, this baby can run. Yeah. It's kryptonite. Yeah. And they won't be asleep until 11. And then I get right.
Fallon Cook (36:38)
I totally agree. Yeah, parents will know. They, and you and I cannot know, but the parent knows which one their child is going to manage. Yeah.
tonight.
Dr Laura (37:00)
That's the option that we're not going to do, in which case let's do three short naps instead. So have a think, Cassie. How did you respond to both of those options and trust your gut with which way you go? What did you think about? Would you be thinking one or the other of those options or something else?
Fallon Cook (37:05)
Hmm.
Yeah.
I think they're both really, yeah,
I think they're both really valid options. ⁓ and I wouldn't be entirely led by parent reaction in this case for sure. I just feel like it's cases like this where we're talking very low sleep needs and you know, you're really seeing a lot of fatigue. I would, and I know you've already made a note of this on the run sheet, Laura, but I just think these are the cases where I'm like, right, we urgently have to get to independent settling. Cause this could be a child who.
Dr Laura (37:28)
Bye.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (37:49)
learns to completely self-settle. like Cassie's a really good part of the way there, but yeah, get your hands off him now. You've done a lot of padding. He's really used to the cot. He sometimes self-settles. Let's make it always self-settles because sometimes they do add a bit more sleep and I bet Cassie would love it if that happened. So I'd probably prioritize that as well as, yeah, considering the tweaks to the daily rhythm.
Dr Laura (37:53)
Mmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Yes.
Yeah,
so work through the next steps Cassie on the quick fade approach or if you're feeling that you want to change how you're settling him because you've been using that quick fade for quite a few months now, then switch to the supported accelerated approach and book in for a coaching call if you want to discuss that with either Fallon or myself. Good luck.
Fallon Cook (38:38)
Yeah, for sure.
Dr Laura (38:39)
Now,
is this our last question? gosh, we better hurry up. We've got quite a few more to go. Fallon, I thought we were doing really well. ⁓ my God. Okay. ⁓ Every week, every week we say we're going to be quick and we're not. Okay. So let's get on to Hannah's question. So Hannah has a seven month old who now wakes twice overnight for feeds and otherwise self settles following previous guidance that was given her.
Fallon Cook (38:43)
I know, there's still heaps.
Skates are on.
you
Dr Laura (39:08)
including transitioning to two naps. So well done Hannah. She's aiming for around two hours of day sleep and approximately 10 hours 15 overnight. ⁓ Hannah finds it difficult to keep him awake during feeds and car rides and she wants to know whether this is normal or a sign that she needs to adjust his day or night sleep. She also asked for guidance on how to handle sleep when he's unwell. He currently has a cold and seems more tired.
She is unsure whether to offer additional sleep freely or to maintain usual limits to avoid disrupting the nights.
Fallon Cook (39:44)
Great question. Look, I would say to begin with, if he's feeding back to sleep overnight, then it's pretty normal that they tend to drift off drift off really easily during daytime feeds because your baby's got a bit of an association between feeding and falling asleep because that's what happens overnight. So that can just mean, yeah, daytime, big struggle to keep them awake during feeds. So you could look at just making sure he's going back in the cot.
Dr Laura (39:52)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (40:12)
awake after the overnight feeds and then you might find that that association kind of wears off a bit and then you know he's more wakeful during the daytime. It can also help just to make sure those day feeds are in a brightly lit room, maybe you've got the TV on or some music or just a bit of energy going on can really help to avoid that drowsiness and help that day rhythm come together.
Dr Laura (40:29)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (40:38)
and then in terms of the illness, so for, you know, just your common head cold, I probably wouldn't adapt the daily rhythm by much. Maybe not even at all. ⁓ I think if it's a fairly minor illness and they seem a little bit more tired, maybe you just give 30 minutes extra day sleep. ⁓ and see how they go. If it destroys their nights, well, the next day don't do that. They're taking 30 minutes more sleep in the day, but they've decided to be awake for 30 minutes longer overnight. know,
Dr Laura (40:48)
you
Hmm.
Yes.
Yes.
Fallon Cook (41:07)
it's kind of tipping them too far out of balance. But for more serious illnesses, they genuinely tend to need more sleep to recover, much like as adults, we tend to sleep more when we're really sick. So in that case, you might let him nap for a little bit longer, but you really only, parents can decide how much longer is sensible. So, you know, a four hour day nap might be a
Dr Laura (41:16)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Fallon Cook (41:32)
way too much and you know then you're to have a terrible night and then you're still parenting a sick child in the day but you've got this horrible interrupted night behind you. So I think I can't give you a perfect answer Hannah, it sort of depends what's know what's making them unwell and how unwell they are but hopefully that gives you just a bit of guidance to think about whether you should you know allow a whole extra hour or even extra two hours or if it's just you know 15 minutes more.
Dr Laura (41:38)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Mmm.
Yes.
Fallon Cook (42:01)
Is that what you'd say, Laura?
Dr Laura (42:03)
Yeah, I'd say so. And we do have podcast episodes on protecting sleep during sickness. So have a look at our back catalogue. ⁓ And there is one relatively recently that's called protecting sleep during sickness or illness. So we talk about it in a bit more detail. Yes. Yeah, yeah, we do. Yeah, good.
Fallon Cook (42:08)
Mmm.
Yes, and we have a lesson in Sunbell on that too. Yeah. So check out those resources in Sunbell as well. Excellent. All
right. Sarah has a 16 month old with an approximate 12 and a half hour sleep need. They sleep 8pm to 6.30am with a two hour daytime nap. He has settled independently in his cot since four months of age with only occasional extra support during illness or teething.
Dr Laura (42:39)
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (42:47)
following a recent teething period where Sarah held him to sleep. He's now refusing to settle in the cot. he's realized there's other ways of falling asleep, hasn't he? ⁓ dear. So Sarah says he's becoming very distressed when she places him down, standing and crying until she picks him up. He calms immediately when she holds him and falls asleep quickly in her arms. When she tries in cot support, sitting in a chair or checking in on him, sort of coming and going,
Dr Laura (43:02)
you
Fallon Cook (43:17)
She says, his distress escalates. He settles without issue for naps at other carers homes. there's a clue there. Sarah wants to know how to transition back to cot settling using a gentler approach and what steps exist between holding him to sleep and independent cot settling whilst avoiding reinforcing the current pattern. Hmm, this is a meaty one.
Dr Laura (43:23)
Yeah.
⁓ so
tricky, yes. So Sarah, it can be really hard when you have had a baby who has settled independently for a year, that would be, ⁓ and now things have fallen over. It can be really hard when you then see crying and protesting at bedtime when you haven't seen that for, since it was very very small, and it can be
really challenging then to stick with one predictable way of settling where you're not responding straight away with that protesting behaviour. know, sometimes when I'm working with families who have those families who are so used to having really cranky children with just slightly difficult temperaments, they're just like, oh, he cries anyway, it doesn't matter. You know, they don't mind, you know, a bit of crying.
it is just the soundtrack of their lives. When you have parents you have really chilled, ⁓ easy-going temperament babies, any crying often has only ever happened before because there's been something actually wrong that the parents have to ⁓ intervene for. So I would be, I'm not surprised Sarah that it is hard when you've tried to use INCOT support.
Fallon Cook (44:43)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (45:03)
to persist because this hasn't been something that you've had to do and that distress that you're witnessing is really hard to tolerate and manage. Now, if you want to go with a really gentle approach, then I would be looking at the slow fade approach, Sarah, which is about introducing some associations to your toddler
whilst you're holding him in your arms with the patting and humming and then very gradually using those same new associations when you put him down into the cot or bed, presumably a cot at this age. That would be the most gradual approach that you could take. Some toddlers will tolerate it and others will...
not, it really will depend on your toddler's temperament, but that would be the most gradual way. So I would read that handout and see how you think your little one is going to react. I would be ⁓ thinking through how you yourself are responding to, like emotionally responding to his protest and what you can do to protect yourself.
So that might be listening to music through headphones to keep yourself calm and grounded What we know is that some toddlers when they have in you in a way tasted the good life Which your toddler has recently and developed that strong preference for wanting this new ⁓ Being held to sleep will really protest loudly at any change because they're toddlers and this is what toddlers do And so it will be important to you
Fallon Cook (46:53)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (46:56)
to do a bit of a check on how you're feeling emotionally and understanding why this protest is happening. It's not necessarily because he's upset and distressed, it's because he wants you to do something different and he's cross or angry or frustrated that you're not settling him in that way. So if you're feeling really spent emotionally, maybe it's something that is not the time to do, to make the changes, but if you feel that
you can understand why he's having this big protest and you're happy to continue to do a really gentle approach to settle him whilst respecting his big emotions about it, but also respecting your wish to continue to go back to where you were before. Then keep going. Just know that his protest isn't because you're doing anything wrong. His protest is because he would prefer you to settle him.
in a way that doesn't suit you. One way that could make it a little bit easier to settle him, to change the way that you're settling him at the moment, would be to consider shortening that nap to an hour and a half rather than two hours just so that you can drive up that sleep pressure by bedtime and just changing that ratio of day to night time sleep can sometimes help toddlers respond a little bit more easily to a change in
how their parents settle them to sleep. So that's also something to consider. But again, if you're in clinic, I would be looking at your face to see your response to that. And if you're like, no way, then don't do that. But it's just something to keep in mind. Anything that you would add, Fallon?
Fallon Cook (48:25)
Hmm.
Yeah
Yeah.
Well, I've been sitting here thinking that there could be a creative way to make this a whole lot easier on Sarah. And one of the thoughts I had is if at other caregivers houses, you know, he self settles and it's fine. Then he's really learned that at home, if I kick up a big stink, I get how to sleep. If it's possible, let's say if at Nana's house, he self settles fine there, then ask Nana to come over and do a couple of bedtimes if it's possible.
Dr Laura (48:46)
Mm.
Mmm.
Fallon Cook (49:04)
And
maybe she uses something like if he normally settles quickly for her, could be using something like the advanced accelerated approach where she just goes in and says, good night, mate, you know, does a few pats and has a good night phrase. And then she wanders out of the room and just waits and kind of sees, you know, what he does. He might settle really quickly because it's Nana. And then after a couple of nights, you go in and you just do the exact same thing that Nana did. You probably will still keep up a bit of a stink, but
Dr Laura (49:27)
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (49:29)
He's realized, okay, at home, when I'm in my bedroom, in my environment, I actually ⁓ can and do fall asleep in my own ⁓ cot. So it could just be a good way of like maybe getting a bit of faster progress. It's something to think about. Cause I think he just, he's like, no, I want, I want mom and I'm going to get really furious and she's going to change her mind. ⁓ toddlers are clever.
Dr Laura (49:37)
Yes!
Yes.
Yes!
Yes, yeah. And actually, I love that idea,
Fallon, and maybe even, you know, one or two nights with Nana doing it and then on the third night, Sarah going in every other time at the end of each interval. So Nana goes in, then wakes, then Mum goes in, and then Nana goes in and Mum goes in. So that he sees, they're doing it exactly the same way together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Fallon Cook (50:03)
Yeah, yeah.
Mmm.
Yeah, it doesn't matter who settles me because it goes the same way every time. Yeah, because we know he can self settle. He's just,
yeah, got strong opinions like who, what toddler doesn't.
Dr Laura (50:24)
Yeah,
that's right. ⁓ Okay, now we've got a question from Brian E who has a 12 month old who previously got settled well, but following illness and sickness began feeding to sleep and co sleeping for part of the night. this I think this might be quite similar to Sarah's predicament. After night weaning, which did not reduce his night waking, she started using the quick fade approach to reintroduce got settling.
Fallon Cook (50:26)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (50:51)
He has shown some progress overnight, but at times becomes extremely distressed during settles, crying intensely and gagging. dear. Briamy provides brief in-cott support before picking him up to resettle when he begins gagging, then returns him to the cot once he is calm. She wants to know whether this level of distress is typical when re-teaching cot settling and how best to manage the process. ⁓ gosh, that's meaty.
Fallon Cook (51:16)
Mmm, yeah.
It gets
really hard to work on cot settling as babies get older. That's for sure. So it is pretty normal to see a lot of pushback. ⁓ doesn't mean we can't do anything about it though. So a hundred percent check the daily rhythm because really long night settles often do indicate that there could be a bit of a sleep pressure component there. Maybe they're ready to drop to, ⁓ one nap or something like that. So definitely address that first. ⁓ toddlers have such good memories.
Dr Laura (51:24)
Yeah.
you
you
Fallon Cook (51:47)
Yeah,
I often think about how, you know, this is probably a very specific one for dog owners, but if your dog, you know, you're taking for a walk and one day in this particular bush, someone's dropped a packet of chips, they get those chips. And then for like months afterwards, your dog is going to insist on very closely inspecting this magical bush that once produced hot chippies. Look, it's like a funny example, but I just think, you know, toddlers are learning and noticing these things. So.
Dr Laura (52:10)
Yeah. Yeah.
Fallon Cook (52:15)
When we go to make a change, we really have to be prepared to persist and show them that, this is the approach that I'm sticking to. With that quick fade approach, that means you're giving constant hands on support. You're constantly present. And it can mean that sometimes the night waking just doesn't reduce until you've phased out the padding and shushing. Some toddlers will still spring awake at the end of the next sleep cycle going,
Dr Laura (52:20)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (52:39)
Where are you? Why aren't you patting me? Why aren't you shushing? Toddlers have no idea that we actually need to sleep overnight as well. They just expect that we'll still be there all night long, hovering over the cot. So it might be worth phasing out the patting and the shushing, you know, when you can. And also sometimes it's just too much hands-on support. So for some parents I'll say, look, I know it seems really unlikely that wandering away is going to actually help. But for some toddlers, if we just say, I'm just going to go do this thing, I'll be back in a minute. They then... ⁓
Dr Laura (52:40)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Fallon Cook (53:10)
with you out of sight and out of mind, start to use their self-soothing abilities because they're like, well, you're not here. I'll give it a go. And then that's when we see a bit of progress. So we want to perfect the daily rhythm first, but then have a think about where you're up to with the ⁓ settling. Make sure the parental bed is absolutely out of sight. ⁓ If they're still in your room, very hard to convince them they shouldn't be able to jump out and get into your bed. Whereas if they're in their own room and the parent bed is out of sight, it is a bit easier.
Dr Laura (53:17)
Yes.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Fallon Cook (53:37)
⁓ and if you are a breastfeeding parent, then it's really important that the other caregiver, if you have one or other friends or family who are happy to support you, they should do the overnight settles because it's just very triggering. You know, if they can see the boobs, they want the boobs. So let's make sure they don't see the boobs.
Dr Laura (53:37)
Mmm.
Yes. Yes. Yes,
absolutely. And I think some of those points are really going to be valid for Sarah as well, who we just spoke about earlier.
Fallon Cook (54:06)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (54:07)
Yeah, so good luck, Bryony. It sounds really tricky, but yeah, getting that daily rhythm right and trying to stop the hands-on support as soon as you can. That's going to be the key to improving things again. Yeah. ⁓
Fallon Cook (54:08)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, you'll get through this, that's for sure. All right,
Emily emailed in, she has a three week old, wow, tiny one, three week old, born at 41 weeks, who is very alert, averaging five and a half hours of day sleep across three long naps and nine and a half hours overnight with wake windows of around an hour.
Dr Laura (54:32)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (54:46)
His days and nights are becoming less confused as Emily uses consistent morning wake times and gentle nap capping. Yes, go Emily. Well done. It's, that's music to my ears. Emily says the main challenge is that he does not transfer well to the bassinet. He springs awake immediately or soon after she transfers him, regardless of how settled he appears beforehand. Emily wants to know whether he is too young for consistent cot settling.
Dr Laura (54:54)
Yes, yeah brilliant yeah yeah
Fallon Cook (55:16)
When is it appropriate to start practicing versus committing to cot settling for every sleep and what the best approach is for a baby who is difficult to transfer?
Dr Laura (55:26)
⁓ well done, Emily. And you were just right at the beginning of this with a tiny little baby. like, congratulations on his birth and well done for helping him out of that day night confusion. That's brilliant. At this age, it is appropriate to practice putting him down into the bassinet before he's fully asleep. That's absolutely fine to do this. You're describing him as super alert.
Fallon Cook (55:32)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (55:54)
So he's really looking at what's going on around him and if he's falling asleep in your arms maybe he's just more alert than many other babies his age and so when you pop him down in the bassinet he's going ⁓ what's what's going on. So have a go at popping him down and seeing just seeing what happens so putting him down before he's asleep. Have a look at the slow tapered approach that's almost
Fallon Cook (56:16)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (56:21)
That's our most gradual approach and is appropriate at this age. You also don't have to be 100 % committed at this young age to using that approach every single settle. You're doing, it's three long naps across the day and then bedtime and resettles overnight. So thinking about maybe picking a couple of naps in a day, one or two naps in the day where you attempt to put him down before he's fully asleep.
and then you're patting him in the bassinet and taking your hand off sometimes just to see what he does. Everything's new for all of you, like for both of you, for the whole family at this point. So you might find that you pop him down when he shows those first tired signs, you pop him down and you just walk away just to tidy up some clothes or something and you turn back and he's fallen asleep in the bassinet. We never know and don't be put off.
Fallon Cook (57:15)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (57:19)
doing that because you've seen something on social media saying you mustn't put your baby down. Give it a go and see. Yes.
Fallon Cook (57:23)
Mmm.
Yeah, it's all about having a bit of a practice, sussing out what works,
what doesn't. And I always say to parents, know, you got to remember that parents of, well, sometimes twins, triplets, certainly quads, they can't be held for every nap. So they are, you know, they're fully committed to cot or bassinet settling from day one. Nobody, nobody's broken. Everybody's okay. Babies go, okay, this is where I sleep. All right.
Dr Laura (57:40)
No.
Yes.
Yes.
Fallon Cook (57:51)
So it really is up to parents whether you want to go all in on cot settling always, but you know, for whatever reasons you want to, or just, you know, see how they go. Um, I would just say that at this age, they enter sleep through light sleep. And that's why even when he's, you know, seeming really asleep, they can wake really easily on transfer because they're having the deepest stages of sleep actually towards the end of the sleep cycle. And that all shifts at about 12 weeks of age. So that's why it can be a bit tricky at this age, but.
Dr Laura (57:51)
Yep.
Yes.
Fallon Cook (58:19)
I think Emily, you're off for a brilliant start.
Dr Laura (58:20)
Yes.
Yeah, well done. Okay, we're getting near the end. Oh, this is the last one! Christine is lucky last! Okay, so Christine has an almost eight month old with an approximate 12 hour sleep need, averaging one to two hours of day sleep and around 10 hours overnight with a 7.30 bedtime.
Fallon Cook (58:29)
It is.
Dr Laura (58:43)
He has improved significantly since starting the programme and now only wakes to be resettled, which usually takes Christine a few minutes just ⁓ once overnight. However, from around three or four thirty a.m. onwards, he's very difficult to resettle and often stays awake until she feeds him, after which he is still then fully awake.
She suspects he may be an early riser. She wants to know what she can do to improve settling in the early morning hours, whether his day sleep may be contributing and whether sleep needs can increase as a baby gets older. Okay, so see earlier, see earlier conversation.
Fallon Cook (59:06)
Mm.
Hmm.
Yeah, look, think Christine definitely have a listen to our last episode, episode 117, because that was all about what to do about early rising and that'll take you through a bunch of different factors to consider.
Look, I think there probably is a need to adapt the daily rhythm a little bit just to ensure the sleep pressure is really there until morning. ⁓ And then when ⁓ you go to really work on resettling, you're likely to see a bit more progress. ⁓ like we discussed earlier, sleep needs can increase with age, but it's not the usual. ⁓ So generally we see the best progress when we just really cater to the
sleep average that they do manage to achieve. And of course then if you have a couple of weeks that are going you know really really well you're really happy you've achieved like really good nights but you think they need a bit more sleep trial adding in that little bit of sleep maybe it's 15 minute longer sleeping in the morning for example and do that for a week and see do they actually take it or do they just get more wakeful at other times of day and they're not actually increasing how much sleep they have overall. So you definitely can have a bit of an experiment there.
Again, I mean, I say this every week, I sound like a broken record, but thank you for these amazing questions from parents. They are a great bunch of questions. And I can just imagine a lot of parents listening in and going, okay, you know, that's sort of similar to my baby or my toddler. And yeah, I hope you found this episode really helpful. ⁓ Of course we've poured.
Dr Laura (1:00:56)
Yeah.
Fallon Cook (1:00:58)
everything into Sombelle and there's a lot more information in Sombelle than we could ever touch on in the podcast. So if you're having trouble, ⁓ you know, with your child having false starts or other sort of sleep pressure related difficulties or settling difficulties, ⁓ consider joining. If you're already a member and you're struggling, please book a coaching call. Some problems are just a bit tricky and a bit of enhanced support goes a really long way.
to getting you over the line. So you just have a good sleeper going forward and you can put all the sleep woes behind you. If you prefer working one-on-one, of course, Laura, you're in the clinic, the Victorian Children's Clinic in Malvern. You know, could book in with Laura for a longer appointment and have that one-on-one support. also do tally health and we have a team of practitioners. We've got Kellie who's an OT. We've got Cat who's a children's nurse and we've got Lauren who.
Dr Laura (1:01:24)
Yeah.
Yes.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Fallon Cook (1:01:50)
is a nurse as well. So they all have their own really amazing unique skill sets to bring to every appointment. So you can go and have a read about each of our practitioners online and decide who might be the right fit for you. ⁓ And lastly, if you love this episode, please leave us a review, give us a five star rating, hit subscribe, us a cuppa. ⁓ It all really, really helps to keep this work going ⁓ when you guys spread the love. So thanks guys for tuning in and you'll hear from us in another couple of weeks.
Dr Laura (1:01:55)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Thanks everyone, bye bye.
