Dr Fallon (00:00)
We've had a recent submission to the podcast from a mum who recently traveled across time zones with her baby and her partner to meet extended family for a holiday. Her baby was very tired and cranky after a lot of travel and interrupted day naps. On trying to settle the baby at bedtime, her mother -in -law and sister -in -law kept intruding, coming into the bedroom to insist that the baby must be hungry or teething or needed burping.
This happened multiple nights during the holiday and our anonymous mum says all her baby needed was some time and some patience as she tried to settle them. She says she felt totally disrespected and disempowered and wonders if we have any advice for her. Welcome back to Brand New Little People, the podcast where we talk about all things sleep and settling during those first few years.
I'm your host, Dr. Fallon Cook and I'm here with Dr. Laura Conway. How are you, Laura?
Dr Laura (01:03)
I'm good, thanks Fallon. How are you?
Dr Fallon (01:05)
Yeah, really well. I know I've come across quite a few families in the clinic who say, I really struggle settling my baby when their in -laws are around or their own parents are around because everyone's got something to say. Do you come across that quite a bit as well?
Dr Laura (01:17)
Hmm.
Yeah, absolutely. And we see the whole works and jerks with intergenerational households, families who don't have any family close by and therefore when they do visit family or family visits them, it's for long extended periods of time. So it's a bit of a pressure cooker. I, as many listeners will know from my accent, I'm not from Australia.
And so when I wanted to take my babies home back to the UK to meet my brothers and sisters and my family, it of course meant that we then were in close proximity for a long period of time. So I have a lot of personal experience of this and also the professional experience through the
Dr Fallon (02:06)
Mm.
Dr Laura (02:16)
people we see in the clinic who are tearing their hair out sometimes with, well, sometimes just throw away remarks and sometimes more insidious comments and kind of undermining. So see the full gamut of experiences that new parents are facing. And my heart does go out to them. What kind of things do you suggest, Fallon, to families that are coming to you with these experiences?
Dr Fallon (02:19)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's really tough, isn't it? Because I think it's when you're a new parent, of course, you know, you're wondering if you're getting things right. You're trying out new things. You're testing some theories about the best way to settle your baby. You're only just growing your own sort of confidence in your own abilities to do things. So having these other voices that are, you look, you know, often extended families trying to be helpful.
You know, they can hear the baby crying and they're like, maybe it's this, maybe I'll suggest this. Often their heart is in the right place, but it just feels, well, disempowering, think is the right word that this mum used. it does because you're trying to figure it out. And when you've got voices in your ears saying, you know, maybe it's this, maybe it's that. I think the underlying message that we hear as new parents is you're not getting it right. I know more than you.
you don't know your baby. It's all this that that's the actual message that comes across even if it's not intended and it can really hit your confidence. It's really tough. So I think, you know, in this case, my first thought would be to as hard as it can be to do this sometimes I'd be very tempted to try and say something like, thank you so much for caring so much about my baby that you're offering this advice.
Dr Laura (03:45)
Mmm, yeah.
Hmm.
Mm -hmm.
Dr Fallon (04:09)
but I know what my baby needs and if I need help, I'll definitely come and ask you if you've got some ideas. It's a really hard thing to say. It is really like, it's not easy, especially when it's in -laws, it's probably a little easier with your own family, when it's your partner's family, it might be that that kind of behavior is acceptable in their family and they are going to feel horrified that, you you're not so welcoming of their thoughts and advice.
Dr Laura (04:15)
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (04:36)
And I think that it's just a whole new kettle of fish to be dealing with, isn't it? You're becoming a parent and then you're also, you've got family on both sides who love your baby. Your baby is part of their family now and you've got this tricky relationship to negotiate. it's tough.
Dr Laura (04:43)
Yeah, it is.
Yes. Yeah. And when you've become a new parent, you yourself then for the first time can begin to reflect on how you were parented. Becoming a new parent can bring up unresolved issues, things that you didn't even hadn't even consciously noticed or thought about before about your family of origin. And likewise for your partner.
Dr Fallon (05:16)
Yes.
Dr Laura (05:22)
And then you can look at what's happening in your partner's family and as well as what's happened in your own family. And you're starting to think about how to differentiate your new unit from those units that you both came from. And so it is a period of kind of heightened sensitivity as you're trying to establish yourself as a family.
Dr Fallon (05:37)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (05:50)
that is independent of the families of origin and also to recognise things that you do want to bring into your new parent, your new family and things that you would just like to leave at the door. And so when you're in that space, it can be extra sensitive and extra vulnerable to feedback, criticism, comments from either your own.
Dr Fallon (06:02)
Hehehehehe
Hmm.
Yes.
Dr Laura (06:18)
family members or your in -laws. So I think having some discussions with your partner about how these interactions with your in -laws or your own families, how they feel for you and how they might feel for your partner as well. And what we've spoken about before being
Dr Fallon (06:22)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (06:45)
clear that you are the team and you are the unit now. You are the three or however many of you there are. You are this new unit and you are setting the new direction and being a team and thinking together about how you might be able to set some boundaries for those who aren't in your immediate unit.
Dr Fallon (06:49)
Hmm.
Yeah, absolutely. And I think as well that partners play such a big role in this, especially if it's their family that's being a little bit intrusive with your baby's care. I would say it's the partner's responsibility to take the lead on having a talk with their family around what the boundaries are and what the limits are. Because in this situation, you know, we've got a new mum trying to deal with crossing time zones with a tired, cranky baby.
Dr Laura (07:38)
yeah.
Dr Fallon (07:40)
You're not in a good space to have a tough conversation with in -laws. but I think, you know, it's totally reasonable that your partner takes that lead, which is going to mean, yeah, having that conversation around. It's not about who's right and wrong. It's actually about how it made you feel. Those feelings are completely valid. you know, and then working from that space of, yeah, sending the partner in to have that conversation. When you say that it actually feels like you're, you're saying that she's doing things wrong.
Dr Laura (07:44)
Mm
Mmm.
Mm
Mm
Dr Fallon (08:10)
you know, can we just have a little bit more space for her when she's settling the baby or it could even just be having really practical rules like, you know, where we've made a decision, my partner and I, that where, when we're settling the baby, if the door's closed, means we don't need any help right now. But if the bedroom door is open, it means we're open to having people coming in and have a try at the settling. could be something just really practical like that.
Dr Laura (08:16)
Mm -hmm.
Dr Fallon (08:37)
where it doesn't have to be a big emotional conversation, but just a really clear directive of if the door's shut, thanks anyway, but we're good. Just to kind of keep them out of your space because when I read this email, I just thought, man, I would have been furious if that was me. Like you're trying to settle a baby. You just don't want people coming in and you know, go on, have you tried this? Have you tried that? Even if it is with good intentions, you know, leave them be.
Dr Laura (08:44)
Yes.
Mm.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And if you are listening to this as a, a grandparent or a newly minted auntie or uncle, have a chat with, the new mom and dad about what would be helpful. and if there's anything that you could do to support them when
Dr Fallon (09:06)
It's a bit out of line.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (09:29)
Of course, you may have an emotional reaction when you're hearing your grandchild or your niece or nephew crying, but that's for you to manage. That's not the responsibility of the new parents. And it's not their job to try and settle their baby more quickly or in a way that you approve of to help you manage your feelings. So you take your feelings and you deal with them in whatever way.
Dr Fallon (09:36)
Hmm.
Yes!
Dr Laura (09:58)
you need to, but not saying anything to the new parents, because it's not on them. They've got enough on their plate. And it may be that the crying baby is taking you back to memories of what happened when your now grown up children were babies themselves. And we know that the memory area of the brain is very close to the emotional
Dr Fallon (10:04)
Yes.
Dr Laura (10:27)
heart of the brain. And so when that is triggered to your emotions, your memories can also then come to the surface. And so if you are finding that when your grandchild or your niece or nephew is crying, it's causing you to feel in a different way and in an uncomfortable way, then that's, that's for you to recognise and to think about what that means.
Dr Fallon (10:34)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (10:52)
Do you need to go for a walk? Do you need to take yourself out of the house when that settling is happening or when that crying is happening? Do you need to put headphones on or noise cancelling earphones and listen to a podcast, for example, so that to keep yourself grounded and calm and just taking on that responsibility yourself and in a calm moment, not telling...
Dr Fallon (11:11)
Mm
Dr Laura (11:20)
the new parents that it's causing you distress because they've got enough on their plate, but just in a very practical sense. What can I do when you're settling your baby? What would be most helpful for you? Would it be helpful for you if we all went out of the house and left you to do it so that you're not feeling in any way responsible for what's happening outside of the bedroom door? Or would it be helpful for you if we...
Dr Fallon (11:45)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (11:49)
do come in after half an hour or just finding out from the new parents what is the right thing to do.
Dr Fallon (11:54)
Yeah, or I think a lot of the time in -laws can even go a step further than that and just make an assumption that you'll be asked if the parents need your help or want your views on how to settle the baby. They will ask you if they want that wisdom from you. And I would say, go and just go and find something to do. Go and wash the dishes, go and put on that load of washing, do something practical. Cause I know
I still struggle with this if we have family come up and they'll say, what can I do? And I think, I feel really bad. saying, well, actually go and do some washing or vacuum something or whatever. You know, it's really hard to actually say, here's your job. but what I love, what I absolutely loved, and I had a friend who used to do this. She would just show up and go, here's some stuff I cooked. she'd say, she'd show up and she'd be like, you know, you go and sort out the baby.
Dr Laura (12:34)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (12:47)
I'll just find something to do and I come back out and she'd put the dishes in the dishwasher. You know, and it's like, just, just do something, literally anything. It's just, it's also helpful. Like rather than just going, let me know if I can do something or I could have done that for you. just do it. Like, what are you waiting for? Like no parent is going to complain that you loaded the dishwasher. just jump in and do something. yeah. So it's.
Dr Laura (12:51)
Yes.
Yeah, yes. Yeah.
Yes. Yes.
Yeah, yeah, you're right. And in all likelihood, the parents aren't going to need help with the baby side of things. It's the peripheral side of things, washing bottles, putting away toys in the toy room, folding up cloth nappies or spew cloths, hanging washing on the line. Yeah, all kinds of there's 101 practical things that you can be helping with. In all likelihood, it's not that your parent is not going to be needing
Dr Fallon (13:21)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (13:40)
prompts to burp their baby.
Dr Fallon (13:43)
Yeah.
Yeah. Parents are all across these things. so yeah, if you have a family trip coming up or family coming to stay, it's always good to have a chat with your partner before the event around how you're going to manage these sorts of things and where the boundaries will be. And it could even be just that, you know, if you're settling the baby, your partner is going to sort of be outside the door and keep people away or vice versa, know, whoever you want to set it up. Yeah.
Dr Laura (13:47)
Yeah.
Yeah, a bouncer.
Dr Fallon (14:14)
yep, they can be the doorman, the door girl. I was going to say something else, then I would have to put the language warning on.
Dr Laura (14:17)
Yeah, yeah, me too. And that's what, yeah, that's what I was thinking too, fell in a, jumped in and quickly went bouncer.
Dr Fallon (14:26)
Gosh, and look, just know it gets easier. It's so hard in those first few months when you're really tired and you've got family who are so excited about this new member of their family. And sometimes they just forget at first that it's actually not their baby. It's your baby. And that you do get to make a call and you can be bold and you can have firm boundaries and
Dr Laura (14:45)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (14:53)
You don't need to be afraid to set those boundaries. It's up to those people to deal with any feelings of disappointment they might have. it's not on you to do that. You've got your hands full enough. And speaking of hands full, we have so many questions to get through this week. Laura, we took a break last week and I think everybody used their usual podcast listening time to put together questions for us because we've had so many come through. we ended up actually kind of grouping them together.
Dr Laura (15:00)
Mm
Yes.
We have a lot. Yes.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (15:23)
of into similar themes, I think, so that we can address a few at once. And if you do send in a question, please keep in mind that if you feel like you need to write lots and lots of paragraphs and a big back backstory in order to ask your question, it might be that a coaching call is a better idea. Cause sometimes we get these really long ones where we just think, man, we would need three podcast episodes to cover that. So do try and just keep it as brief as you can.
Dr Laura (15:28)
Yeah.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (15:50)
just so that it's easily gonna slot into the podcast. All right, so the first kind of theme we're gonna talk about is working out your baby's unique sleep needs. We had questions come through from Monica, Kirby, Angela and Priyanka about how to work out sleep needs. First up with Monica, she says she has a five and a half month old who settles independently.
Dr Laura (15:53)
Hmm.
Mm
Dr Fallon (16:14)
but has been waking every 45 to 90 minutes overnight. Ouch, since three months old. so it's good two and a half months of very frequent waking. Monica wants to know, can I manufacture how much sleep my baby needs simply by routine slash sleep habits? And shouldn't a baby's sleep needs vary depending on activity? For example, when I'm out, my baby is awake for much longer than when we are at home.
Dr Laura (16:19)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (16:44)
but he's just as happy in both scenarios. So it seems he has a vastly different sleep requirement day to day. And I'm not sure which type of day will give me the most accurate result. Hmm. That sort of makes me think, well, that's why we look at it over a week. Isn't it? Is that what you were going to say? Hmm.
Dr Laura (16:55)
Mm, yes.
Exactly. Yes, exactly. That's what I was going to come in and say, Fallon. Yeah, that we very rarely, well, never look at just one particular day. And we're never looking to see if we do one thing during the day, what's going to happen that particular night. We always look across the whole week. And look, some babies ready to have a very steady amount of sleep that they get every day and others have hugely variable sleep from day to day. But across a whole week,
Dr Fallon (17:09)
Mm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (17:28)
they generally will get all of the sleep that they need. And so some days it may be Monica, that your baby, he copes really well perhaps with really long wake windows. And the reason he copes well with those is that on the subsequent days, his circadian rhythm knows if you like, that he's gonna be at home and is gonna be able to catch up on sleep. And across the whole week, that big variability is going to
Dr Fallon (17:30)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (17:58)
state, we're going to be able to work out the average. And some babies just cope much better than others with a lot of variability. We generally find that sleep like structure. So the vast majority of babies would function better if they're having a similar amount of sleep from day to day. But as we often talk about personality and temperament play a big role. And Monica, it may be that you just have a really chilled baby.
Dr Fallon (18:07)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (18:28)
who just rolls with the punches if you like.
Dr Fallon (18:31)
Yeah. And that kind of feeds into Monica's next question, which is, should she be using a schedule first and seeing how he sleeps against that schedule for consistency or just letting him do what he's doing at the moment?
Dr Laura (18:43)
Yeah, so I would just be letting him do what he does at the moment. Don't change anything before you've assessed the sleep needs. So just pick a week. You might even want to pick two weeks. If your daily rhythm is that variable moniker, maybe just do it for two weeks so that you're capturing enough of the variability in your lifestyle. And then work out the average based on two weeks.
Dr Fallon (18:47)
Hmm.
Yeah good and Monica also wants to know should we be counting all the minutes he's awake during the night? He wakes up so often particularly at the start of the night just after bedtime that even though he's resettled quite quickly the minutes would accumulate greatly.
Dr Laura (19:25)
Yeah, so you do want to count all the minutes he's awake during the night. It may be that you're, we don't have to be a hundred percent accurate, but you might say, well, you know, he's woken four times before midnight and each of those was about five minutes. And then just say, well, that's on average. I've actually forgotten what I just said there with my maths. But anyway, whatever the, whatever that adds up to Monica, and then you take that away from the, from the overnight sleep. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (19:45)
Yeah.
Yes, we get these questions all the time. And I think with the diary, it really is as simple as if they're asleep, it as they're asleep. And if they're awake, they're not asleep. Like it really is just that, that simple. Even if they're waking up a lot overnight, just try and track it as best you can.
Dr Laura (20:09)
Mm
Dr Fallon (20:10)
Kirby asks, if we resettle for a nap because our baby is obviously tired and able to resettle within three or four minutes of having some comfort, not feeding, does this longer nap count as sleep need? And overnight, does the time start when they go to sleep and stop when they wake up for the day, regardless of time spent feeding or resettling? A similar kind of question.
Dr Laura (20:34)
Similar question, yeah, which is why we've got them all grouped. yeah, Kirby, absolutely. You count when your baby is asleep, even when it's been a resettle. Yep, you count that. If your baby didn't need that sleep, they wouldn't take it. So if your baby is able to be resettled during the day for a nap, then you count the whole time that they were asleep as sleep time, and you would.
Dr Fallon (20:38)
Hehehehe
Yeah.
Dr Laura (21:02)
exclude the amount that they resettle that you are resettling them. And likewise for overnight, it generally what Fallon and I do when we're looking at sleep diaries, as we say, we look at what time they fell asleep at the start of the night, what time they woke up in the morning, and then we tot up how many minutes they were awake for overnight. And then we subtract that from that total time that they were in their cot.
Dr Fallon (21:05)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, and it's not a wish list. It's not like this is what I want them to do. So I'm going to allow, you know, I'm going to say they slept from 7pm to 7am and ignore the wake ups. We have to be really honest in that diary because it makes a big difference to what kind of daily rhythm we're going to set them up with. Yeah, excellent. And do you want to read out Angela?
Dr Laura (21:44)
Hmm. Yeah.
yeah, you go. yeah. Okay. So Angela has an 11 week old baby boy. and Angela has said that by following his tired cues instead of wake windows and working on cot settling, he has been barely crying when she puts him down, for sleep, which is great. And he's been doing, over one hour daytime naps. she's worked out his unique sleep need is 15 hours and he has about 11 hours overnight and four hours.
Dr Fallon (22:06)
Great.
brilliant.
Dr Laura (22:18)
during the day across four or five naps. And he's dropped down to one bottle overnight. So it sounds like he's doing really well, Fallon, doesn't it? Yeah. So Angela asks, is this too much sleep for his age?
Dr Fallon (22:20)
Wow.
Yeah, go Angela. That's great.
No, no. I mean, there is such a thing as a baby having too much sleep, but it is very, very rare. And it usually means there's some sort of disorder or something that's contributing to that. But no, 15 hours is within the typical range for an 11 week old. I would just be counting your blessings. There are parents listening who are like, what? 15 hours, if only.
Dr Laura (22:56)
Yes.
Yes.
Dr Fallon (23:03)
And it just really speaks to them all being a bit different. They all have their own unique sleep needs. so yeah, I wouldn't be worried about it being too much, but just know that it will drop like over the next couple of months that is going to drop down and it could be a bumpy ride where suddenly you're like, my gosh, he's waking up more. you know, things are getting tricky. Just keep an eye on how much sleep is averaging so that you can adjust the daily rhythm to fit that amount.
Dr Laura (23:06)
Yeah.
Mm -hmm.
Mmm.
Yeah, that's a great point Fallon. Angela's follow up question is, should I start dropping sleep during the day so that it doesn't eventually go into night sleep? She says, I try to keep him up longer during the day, however, he screams and burrows his head into me wanting to sleep.
Dr Fallon (23:30)
Mmm.
Okay, should I start dropping sleep during the day so that it doesn't eventually go into night sleep? I'm not sure I quite understand, but I think from what Angela's saying, you know, if she's trying to keep him up longer in the day, he screams, buries his head like he's really wanting to sleep. I would say just keep doing what you're doing. There will definitely come a time where you'll find if you don't stretch him out a little bit before bed, then bedtime will be hard or the nights might become more difficult.
But it sounds like things are going pretty well for now and it might just be that you just keep things steady. Yeah, and maybe in another few weeks, if you feel like you need to stretch him out a little longer before bed, try it again and he might manage it a little bit better. At 11 weeks, he's right on the cusp of that maturation of the circadian rhythm where things do start to fall into a little bit more of a pattern and we can stretch them a little more because sleep pressure can start to build.
Dr Laura (24:36)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (24:39)
Yeah, for now, I'd say, Angela, you're doing really well. Your baby's doing really well. You can probably just kind of watch and monitor. And if things get a bit bumpy, revisit that total sleep duration.
Dr Laura (24:44)
Mm
Yeah.
and now our last sleep needs question, is from Priyanka who has a 21 month old who's previously been sleeping well, but for the last month has been having split nights at least twice a week where she's awake for between an hour and a half and two hours. that's painful. she pre says, she's also resisting her nap on the weekends. So Priyanka is revisiting her sleep needs, trying to work.
Dr Fallon (25:09)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (25:21)
them out to see what they are now. She writes that during the split nights her toddler only goes to sleep if her hand is on her and then she'll drift in and out of light sleep and she wants to know if this should count as sleep as she's never quite sure if she's actually asleep.
Dr Fallon (25:41)
We get this question quite a bit too. It's really tough. I agree with Priyanka, there's definitely a sleep pressure issue there with those split nights, so it's probably going to be a case of trimming down the total day sleep, fiddling with bedtime and wake up time a little bit. If we're so unsure whether they're asleep or not, my...
Dr Laura (25:56)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (26:03)
my feeling of it is to go with a kind of 50 -50 split. So if for example from 4am to 6am they're sort of wakeful, they're sort of dozing and it's really on and off, maybe you don't say that they slept the full two hours, maybe you just go look it's probably about an hour total. This is only if you're really unsure. Obviously it's different in really little babies, they can be really active during sleep and we would probably just count that all asleep. But for a toddler,
Dr Laura (26:20)
Mm -hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (26:30)
I'd probably, yeah, somewhere in the middle. Is that what you'd say, Laura?
Dr Laura (26:34)
Yeah, I'd say so because it sounds like if Priyanka takes her hand off her toddler, the toddler is just wide awake again. So she's probably just managing to stay in very light stage. She might only be in stage one of sleep and yeah, just dozing and maybe just not even asleep at all for some of it, but just enjoying having that one -on -one time with her mum. So I think that's a really good solution.
Dr Fallon (26:42)
Mmm.
Hmm, dozing.
Yeah.
Dr Laura (27:03)
What you can always do pre -anchor is if you work it out as 50 -50, so half of that time she's asleep and then count that as the sleep need, then work up that new daily rhythm, see if the overnight wakes, split nights reduce in frequency and duration. And once they have, then you can always add a little bit more sleep just to make sure that she's getting all of the sleep that she needs.
Dr Fallon (27:26)
Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really sensible idea if you've been on a daily rhythm for a while, test out adding in a little bit more sleep just in case they can manage a bit more. And if their nights deteriorate, you've got your answer and you can just revert straight back. Yeah, that's really sensible. We also have this other similar theme that came up in this week's question regarding reintroducing naps. So Meg and Sally both had written in asking about reintroducing naps after having dropped them. So
Dr Laura (27:35)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (27:56)
Meg has a toddler who is two years and four months who dropped her day nap completely in the last month or so. She has a bedtime of 7pm and wakes around 6 .30am to 7am. She settles independently, however she has continual short wake -ups overnight, often distressed, calls out for mum, but resettles independently after a quick cuddle.
She's with me constantly and has her connection cup very filled. I like, I like those words. It's a lovely way of describing it. makes her, she's at a bit of a loss what to do to try the naps again or just persevere. Could it be a sleep pressure issue or separation anxiety?
Dr Laura (28:26)
Yeah.
Yeah. I would not be suggesting adding a nap back in Meg. I think that you'll probably find then that the wakeups continue overnight, but rather than them being short, that they start to get longer. Yeah. So, and I know it happened to know that in, that was a longer email Meg had said that her toddler has always dropped her naps much earlier, all the way along, much earlier than other babies her age.
Dr Fallon (28:52)
They'll get longer. Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (29:09)
And we know anywhere between two and three is perfectly reasonable for toddlers to drop their naps. Some hold on to it into a four -year -old kinder, but many not. And children often can't go into four -year -old kinder until they've dropped their naps. So anyway, she's in the ballpark where it's perfectly reasonable to have dropped her nap. I would be thinking about...
Dr Fallon (29:24)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (29:35)
you've already ruled out that your toddler isn't seeking connection from you because her connection cup is very filled already. So I would be persevering with keeping the nap, no longer offering that nap, maybe looking at stabilising that wake up time, because at the moment it's between 6 .30 and seven. So maybe stabilising it looking at her sleep needs are and then picking
you know, probably 6 .30. And perhaps even bringing bedtime a little bit later, depending on what her sleep needs are, so that we can start to just drive up that sleep pressure a little bit so that she's more likely to maintain her sleep for longer. The fact that she can go back to sleep quite quickly overnight is a good sign that sleep pressure is in the ballpark where we need it to be. She's getting into the age where you could start to look at bringing in some kind of reward system.
Dr Fallon (30:06)
Hmm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (30:32)
I would think, to motivate her to stay in her bed all night long without needing to call out for you. And so that might look like, you know, just checking out the reward chart section of Somme Bell and thinking about getting some really highly high value rewards that your toddler is gonna love. It doesn't have to be high monetary value, of course.
Dr Fallon (30:33)
Mmm.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (31:02)
But it might be that she likes particular figurines, bluey figurines or toy cars or coloring pencils. And you could either use a reward chart like we described in Somme Belle or another idea is if she's had some a good night of sleeping without calling out either at all or often overnight is doing a reward by stealth and using a sleep fairy.
Dr Fallon (31:03)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (31:31)
So sleep fairy has known, she recognized how well you slept overnight. And I think the sleep fairy's visited and left a little reward in the kitchen for you. Let's go and see what it is. And the sleep fairy might even have written a little note saying good sleeping, whatever your toddler's name is. And then you can open the gift with your toddler and then be like, And then that night you can say, if you sleep really well tonight, do you think that the sleep fairy might come again tomorrow?
Dr Fallon (31:47)
Yeah
Dr Laura (32:00)
I think that she might. And then it's like kind of building some excitement around the sleep fairy.
Dr Fallon (32:00)
Yeah
That's so lovely. I love that approach. That's really awesome. My mind went somewhere slightly different. And I think let's talk this through in case there's other families listening to who go, there's no way sleep very is going to work for my kid. I was thinking about the fact that she's back to sleep really quick after a cuddle.
Dr Laura (32:12)
Mmm!
Dr Fallon (32:24)
And some toddlers just think, if I wake up in the night, I'll let out an almighty shriek so I can have this nice cuddle with mom or with dad. And then I'll just go back to sleep. But they kind of are in this habit of just calling out because they love a cuddle. It's lovely. so you could also just work on not cuddling, not doing the cuddle, but going in giving lots of reassurance. Maybe it's some pats, but just not getting her out of the cot. It might take a few nights of practice. She might be a little bit cranky, but you're still there for her and you're still giving hands on support, just not lifting her out of the cot.
Dr Laura (32:46)
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (32:54)
and then over time, might be that you, maybe you offer a couple of pets, but it's very brief before you leave. So you just sort of gradually reducing things until she'll get to a point where she'll wake up at night and think, well, I could call out, but they're just going to like, give me a few pets and say good night again. And that's pretty boring. Usually they just go, I'll just go back to sleep. so that's another approach that can work really well. with that type of problem. Hmm.
Dr Laura (33:00)
Mmm.
Yes.
Yes. Yeah. So have a think Meg about which is going to suit you better. And both of them essentially looking at ways that are going to motivate your toddler. So if the motivation is the cuddles, then stopping those cuddles overnight and just being verbally reassuring instead is going to be the way to go. If you think that that's going to be too hard for you to do, then
Dr Fallon (33:29)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (33:43)
think about giving it just to make sure it's a very quick cuddle, but use a sleep fairy idea if that's the factor that you think is going to motivate her to stay quiet as a mouse overnight.
Dr Fallon (33:49)
Mmm.
Yeah, yeah, and there's lots of information in Sombelle in the toddler program about using a reward chart and how to set it up and, you know, ways to use it that are really effective. So have a good read through all of that.
Dr Laura (34:05)
Hmm
Dr Fallon (34:07)
So we also had Sally who wrote in and she says that at 17 months old, her son's sleep needs were around 11 to 12 hours and he was on two naps each day, but this quickly reduced to just the one nap. Then sickness struck and they ended up co -sleeping with him for 10 days. Sally says we're trying to transition him back to his cot in his own room. The past two nights have been really hard.
Bedtime is 7 .30 PM. He has been awake both nights at 11 PM for one hour of settling, then 1 AM for two hours of settling, then 4 .30 AM for another hour of settling. my goodness. She says, consequently, the days have been hard and I've had to go back to two naps. Okay. So Sally asks, how long do you anticipate the transition back to his cot will take?
Dr Laura (34:46)
What?
Mm.
Dr Fallon (35:01)
And she says, we have been sitting or lying on the floor in his room out of sight for settles overnight. Is it better to be sitting next to the cot in a chair where we are visible to him? gosh. First of all, I just want to start this by saying, if your child gets sick, try your absolute best to keep them where they normally sleep and you should go and sleep in beside them because they sleep best in their usual sleep space. Much like you sleep better in your own bed than you do at a hotel.
Dr Laura (35:29)
Mm
Dr Fallon (35:30)
Try to keep them in their cot and you can set up a spare bed right beside them and give them all the hands on support you need to. Because it is, as Sally knows, it's so hard to get them back in their cot after a bit of co -sleeping. But what do you think, Laura? What would your advice be?
Dr Laura (35:36)
Mm
Yes.
Sally, gosh, I feel sorry for you that you've had, I mean, that's four hours worth of settling overnight for two nights in a row, which is a very long amount of time to be resettling for. So I would be thinking of just logging his sleep and making sure that what his sleep needs are now. I know that it was
Dr Fallon (35:54)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (36:13)
He's actually 19 months old now again. So this was two months ago that Sally worked out the sleep needs were between 11 and 12 hours. You know, if he is close to, you know, maybe now it's even between 10 and a half and 11 hours of sleep that he might need. We're not sure. So Sally, would be logging his sleep now just to work out what his sleep needs are so that you can have an appropriate bedtime and wake up because taking that length of time overnight to resettle.
those are really extended periods of time to be resettling. And in answer to your question, how long do you anticipate the transition back to his cot will take? Well, it's going to take a hell of a lot longer when he is having the opportunity to have catch up naps during the day.
Dr Fallon (36:44)
Hmm
Yeah, that's where my head went as well. Like if you give him an extra nap, he's circadian rhythm learns. It's fine, wake up for hours overnight, because we'll just catch up on a day's sleep. Yeah, I thought the exact same thing, Laura.
Dr Laura (37:03)
Yep.
Yeah.
Yeah. So really at 19 months old, it's a hundred percent appropriate for him to just be on one nap. And when we keep him on just one nap, and that is a set length as well, depending on what his sleep needs are, it might be that it's just an hour or an hour and a half or even 45 minutes, whatever his sleep cycle length is. Then we're thinking about how
The first night will be really hard when you use the settling approach, but then the second night, the sleep pressure is much, much higher. And then the settling tends to be much quicker. It may be that he still has some wake ups overnight, but he will be so tired. The sleep pressure will be so high that he's less likely to be able to stay awake for four hours all up overnight. And then by the third night, then what we tend to find is if you're using one of the quicker approaches, which I'm assuming you are Sally.
Dr Fallon (38:00)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (38:08)
that your toddler should be then sleeping longer stretches overnight. And the transition to his cot should then, you know, maybe another day or two, and he'll be back to sleeping really well like he used to. But don't reintroduce that nap.
Dr Fallon (38:13)
Hmm.
Yeah
Yeah, I totally agree. Usually if we're building that sleep pressure, we're not adding extra day sleep often by two or three nights. They're doing really well in terms of Sally's question around, should she sit in a chair where she's visible to him? Because she has been sort of staying in the room, but out of sight of him, you know, should she change it? It depends entirely on how your toddler reacts. If they come faster when they can see you, sitting nearby, then sit nearby with insight, but
So often they just get mad. They see you there and they're like, why aren't you, you know, taking me out of this cot? Why aren't we doing something else? so often it is a case that just sitting out of sight, you know, is the quickest way to get through this. but definitely look at the Sombelle materials because they are designed to help you work out whether, you know, to test out, should I be present and within sight or
Dr Laura (38:58)
Mmm.
you
Dr Fallon (39:18)
you know, is it better to be out of sight? There's no clear right or wrong. It just depends on what helps your toddler to calm down quicker. Yeah. good luck, Sally. It's really tough. I'd feel really bad for you because it's a tough thing to go through. But once he gets through this, just know that he's back in his cot then. That's the only place he'll be sleeping. If he's unwell, you'll go in and you'll sleep nearby to keep an eye on him.
Dr Laura (39:20)
Mm.
Yeah.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (39:44)
but just don't co -sleep because he's old enough now. He's got a very good memory and he's going to be really cranky when he goes back in that coat. Another theme we had a few questions come through about was about offering extra naps and skipping naps. So Fiona had a question around sort of unsuccessful naps, calls them. She says, we're using the supported accelerated approach, usually most successfully.
Dr Laura (39:48)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm
Dr Fallon (40:14)
However, if it is unsuccessful and our five and a half month old does not go to sleep and then she's awake and we decide to get her up, does this damage any of the progress we have made? Fiona says, link to this if say a couple of hours later or anytime we do a contact nap, does that undo any of our good work? She says, I sometimes do a contact nap following a sort of unsuccessful nap.
to ensure she gets some sleep and doesn't sort of get to the end of her tether. Hmm, what do you reckon?
Dr Laura (40:47)
Hmm. Yeah, that's a really good question. Naps sometimes are a little bit behind nighttime sleep. So sometimes we find that nighttime sleep improves and then naps take a little bit longer. What I want to reassure you about Fiona is that if your baby skips a nap entirely, so at five and a half months, I'm suspecting that your baby's probably on maybe three naps a day. If there is a day where
Dr Fallon (40:56)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (41:16)
Your baby has two normal naps and then has skipped one of their naps and either has a little power nap later in the day or makes it through into a bedtime. No damage will be done. Your baby will be really cranky, but it's not the end of the world if a baby does skip a nap. So first of all, hope that reassures you. Secondly, what I would be...
Dr Fallon (41:27)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (41:42)
thinking through is given that you're doing the supported accelerated approach and that you're mostly having success with it overnight and daytime is a little bit trickier. I'd be thinking of trying if at all possible to avoid contact naps so that it doesn't become confusing for your baby because your baby won't understand why sometimes they can fall asleep on you and other times you persist. They don't really they don't know that
understand fully the difference between day and night time sleep. So I would be thinking to try and do the settling in the cot for maybe around half an hour, 45 minutes, depending on your levels of resilience and tolerance and whether you're juggling other children as well. And then say if it's been unsuccessful and that your baby hasn't gone to sleep, pop them in the pram or the car to try and give them a nap somewhere else, rather than being
Dr Fallon (42:14)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (42:41)
on you just because you are working on helping your baby go to sleep independently. offer them the nap on the go instead and then try again next time with the cot settle. And again, have a period of time that you're going to try to do the cot settle for. And if after that time your baby hasn't been able to go to sleep, then again, revert perhaps to the pram and then try again for the third one.
Dr Fallon (42:46)
Mmm.
Hmm. Yeah. And if all you can manage is 10 or 20 minutes of trying to settle and that's, that's your maximum. That's fine too. Just yeah, do, do a nap on the go. Have an easy, give yourself an easy settle. And I think keep in mind too, we're not saying that, you know, all contact naps are bad. it's really just that if you're a parent who's decided that you're going to work on having your baby fall asleep in their cot.
Dr Laura (43:22)
No.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (43:28)
Just keep in mind that the occasional contact nap doesn't do any harm, doesn't undo progress, but it just might make it confusing and it might mean slower progress towards that really happy, content, settling. Yeah, you're doing a great job, Fiona.
Dr Laura (43:41)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (43:44)
Olivia asked, does it matter if my baby changes between four and three naps per day? If the total amount of sleep is still the same. she gives a bit of context. says my daughter who's four and a half months old is a bit of a catnapper. She naturally does three 30 minute naps and one 90 minute nap each day. but in the past couple of days, she started to randomly do three naps where she sort of has, two 30 minute naps and then one two hour nap.
And Olivia is finding it easier to stretch her out between those naps. So yeah, she's wondering, does this matter? She can't stop her falling asleep in the car and the pram, which is what sometimes results in that fourth nap on those days when they're out and about.
Dr Laura (44:28)
Yeah. So Olivia, it sounds like you're just in a transition point where your baby is moving towards three naps a day. And for some families, they might stay in this transition point for a few weeks and it doesn't really bother them. They just go with the flow. And for others, they start to find that on the nights that
A baby has had four naps in the day, often to have four naps in the day, the last nap gets a bit close to bedtime, so the nights can start to fall over, babies can start to have more wakeups overnight. And then a family will say, you know what, we're just going to bite the bullet and say, from this day moving forward, we're just going to offer our baby three naps a day. And it may mean that there's a few days where your baby isn't getting
all of the daytime sleep that you have earmarked for them. But like, I guess what we were saying earlier for the members who have written and asking about sleep needs and skipping naps, if your baby does have one day where they don't have quiet enough daytime sleep, it's not going to do them any harm. And ultimately it will mean that sleep pressure builds.
And the next day, your baby may then have more chance of doing one of those longer naps for you. And you'll find that the dust settles and your baby is probably going to start to have two shorter naps and perhaps one longer nap a day, for example. What would you add to that, Fallon?
Dr Fallon (45:57)
Mmm.
Hmm. Yeah. No, I think that's, that's really good advice. It so depends on, you know, there's some babies who are fine with the naps varying a little bit during that transitional phase. And then there are others where it's the furthest thing from fine. You kind of get, you know, they're awake for hours at bedtime or they're waking constantly. And I think those parents just know, okay, we've really got to make sure that fourth nap is avoided.
Dr Laura (46:20)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (46:30)
And in that situation, it might be that for a few days to a week, you just try and stay around home a little bit more than you usually would, or just leave the house when you know they're due for a nap so that they have it on the go and they don't get that additional nap. Yeah, again, another parent who's doing a really good job and really putting some thought into that structure of the day. And I love to hear it. It's awesome.
Dr Laura (46:43)
Hmm.
Mm. Yeah. Our final theme is about tricky settles. So we've had Kate and Sarah write in one's written about tricky settles for naps. So there may be a little bit of an overlap with one of our other answers a moment ago. And the other is written about tricky settles in the night. So Kate says she's
Dr Fallon (46:58)
Hmm
Okay.
Dr Laura (47:14)
writing about the tricky settles during the day. And she says, I've just started the supported accelerated approach for my five and a half month old baby boy. We've done two nights so far and it's proving to be really effective with only three wakes overnight, two for feeds and one resettle. However, that's great. However, day naps are harder. So Kate says it took 28 minutes for him to fall asleep today.
Dr Fallon (47:31)
Great. Yeah.
Dr Laura (47:40)
and I found the crying much harder in the day than at night. That's interesting, isn't it Fallon? Because often we hear the opposite. yeah, and it's really important to recognise how you feel about crying and what that means to you. So well done, Kate, for recognising that for you it's the crying in the day that's harder. So Kate says, how?
Dr Fallon (47:48)
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Laura (48:10)
Could I go about settling for naps without confusing him for his night sleeps, which seem to be going well? Could I make modifications to the Supported Accelerated approach only for daytime? I don't want to undo the hard work for nighttime and ultimately would love for him to self settle for day sleeps too, but I'm just not sure we're quite there yet.
Dr Fallon (48:36)
I love this question. think it is, it's such, I think every parent needs to this answer as well. it is harder when you've just started to work on self settling in a cot. Those day naps are just so much harder because sleep pressure is not as high in the daytime as it's going to be overnight. it is really tough. I often say to clients for the first few days of working on cot settling at night,
Dr Laura (48:38)
Mm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (49:02)
give yourself permission to do as many naps on the go as you want to do, to just give yourself an easy settle. So Kate might find, okay, I can manage maybe the first nap of the day in the cot and I'm feeling okay to persist with that one, even if he's a bit cranky about it. And then the other two naps just take him out and about, or it could even be all naps are just on the go for those first few days. So often if you stick to the cot settling overnight and you're working really hard on that,
It could be the fourth day, the fifth day, maybe after a week. If you then start to work on day naps in the cot, it's likely to be much, much easier. So that's why I say to parents, just don't put too much pressure on yourself to be trying and trying to settle in the cot in the daytime. It's totally fine if you do some naps on the go.
Dr Laura (49:48)
Mm.
Hmm.
Dr Fallon (49:53)
You could decide to make some modifications to the day naps, but I would say the first thing is just to not worry about the day naps too much, do them on the go. They're probably just going to come together fine in the end. If you modified how you settle the baby during the day, it could cause some confusion. But I would never rule out anything. Like some parents do say, look in the daytime, I just pat my baby off to sleep. And at nighttime, they completely independently self -settle and it works for us and that's fine.
Dr Laura (50:22)
Mm
Dr Fallon (50:23)
So it is something you could try, but I feel like if you wait a few days before trying another nap, settle in the cot, your baby has gotten so used to self settling in their cot in the pitch black of night, that then if you make sure that room is pitch black for day nap, so really, really dark, you take them into that room, you follow a similar wind down routine to what you might do at bedtime. They just go, yeah, it's pitch black. And when it's pitch black,
Dr Laura (50:45)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (50:50)
I fall asleep here really quickly and nicely. So that is often a real key too, to make it the same in the day as it is at night. And they take their cue, they go, yep, this is when I, I self settle quickly and easily. So I hope that helps. I think a lot of parents come across this exact same problem, Kate, which is why I'm really glad you asked the question. Is there anything you'd add to that though, Laura?
Dr Laura (50:52)
Yes!
Mm.
Yeah, no, Fallon, I think that's perfect. So Kate, let us know how you get on. You've done two nights of support accelerated approach, so you'll be coming out the other side. So well done. Yeah, let us know how you get on. So Sarah has written about tricky settles in the night. So Sarah says that she also has a five and a half month old.
Dr Fallon (51:22)
Hmm.
Yeah, well done.
Dr Laura (51:38)
like Kate, baby girl who has a 13 and a half hour sleep need. So her baby has three naps a day, totaling two and a half hours with a 10 to 20 minute power nap two hours before bed. Otherwise, she says that her baby is just too cranky. Wake up 6 .30 in the morning bedtime 7 .30 at night. So that's 11 hours overnight. She self settles for her nap.
times. This has got the polar opposite issue of Kate. So settles for naptimes but for bedtime needs two to three minutes of gentle bump hats. And then she has three to five wakes a night including two feeds and in the last week has been awake for an hour crying somewhere between 10 and 11 30 p And Sarah says this is causing me significant anxiety.
Dr Fallon (52:11)
Hahaha
Hmm.
Dr Laura (52:34)
Sarah, that's really hard. And an hour of crying in the night can be just incredibly challenging. So Sarah has two questions. The first is, which Sombelle settling approach should we try? And is it consistent enough if we just do it for the one settle that her baby needs between somewhere between 10 and 11 .30? Because at all other times, she simply puts her into the cot.
Dr Fallon (52:42)
Mm, absolutely.
Dr Laura (53:03)
and her baby turns over and falls asleep. And then Sarah says, why is this settle so different to all of the rest? Do I need more awake time during the day?
Dr Fallon (53:06)
Mmm.
Great question. Sarah, it's, I would put money on this being a sleep pressure problem. One thing I was really unclear on, I think what I'm reading is there's three naps plus a power nap. That's a contact nap. So yeah, so I would say that's four naps. That's how I would count it. It's four naps per day, which is too many for a five and a half month old. I would say it's that power nap that is
Dr Laura (53:18)
Mm.
That's how I read it as well. Yeah. Yep.
Dr Fallon (53:46)
causing that really long wake up early in the night. So I would be thinking if there's a 13 and a half hours sleep need aim for three naps, you might need to stretch them all out a little bit. So there's not a big long, long, long stretch before bed of wake time. That should be the longest stretch of awake time, but we don't want it to be like, you know, six hours or something excessive. So we would definitely keep aiming for about two and a half hours total day sleep split across three naps roughly equally across the day.
and then yeah, you're aiming for about 11 hours overnight. So it's just, what you're describing is a good balance of, you know, meeting her sleep needs. It sounds really good. I think it's going to be that power nap. And I think a lot of parents are really overwhelmed by their baby's difficult behavior in the evening. So a lot of parents will keep this little power nap going because they are, they find it really stressful.
Dr Laura (54:36)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (54:42)
when their babies have a really, really normal kind of cranky period in the evening. And often I have to say to parents, your baby's crankiness in the evening is completely normal. It's not something you can really try to prevent because they all do it, toddlers do it, I do it. We all get kind of cranky in the evening. You should see when my kids test me how cranky I can get. Like it's...
Dr Laura (54:56)
No.
I do it.
Dr Fallon (55:08)
It's really tough though. And I totally get as a parent, it's like, they're really cranky and I feel stressed out. I'll try and prevent it with a power nap, but then we get the tough night. So what I would say is let's drop the power nap. Know that for the first few nights, you'll probably still get that wake up. And so you're going to think this isn't helping. This is feels a bit futile. What am I doing this for? But give her circadian rhythm time to adjust and time to realize that that fourth power nap is not on the table anymore.
and what you would probably find is maybe by day four or five, sometimes a weekend, they adjust to the three nap schedule. The night wakes start to reduce things, just get a whole lot easier. it sounds like she self settles beautifully, which is wonderful. So, and I get what Sarah's saying, like is it, we can't be consistent. So it's only one set of where we have to have an approach at all.
Dr Laura (55:44)
Hmm.
Yeah.
Mmm.
Dr Fallon (56:02)
But that's fine. I would say use the supported accelerated approach because your baby knows how to self -settle, can absolutely do it. We've got no doubt at all about that. Once sleep pressure gets a little higher because she's not having that power nap, she should start to use those self -settling skills. But something like the supported accelerated approach means you're giving her some reassurance, but you're not kind of stepping in too much. We don't want her to start thinking, well, I'll keep waking up because I get these lovely bum pats to get back to sleep.
Dr Laura (56:26)
Mm.
Dr Fallon (56:32)
you're still going to give her pats and reassurance, but you're going to, take a little bit of a step back, give her a little bit more room to try and resettle herself because with higher sleep pressure, she should be able to do it. so I would say after maybe a week of those schedule changes, then move to the supported accelerated approach for that overnight settle. So you're only making that change when sleep pressure is high enough that she can get herself back to sleep rather than kind of trying to do it tonight when we know that.
Dr Laura (56:44)
Mm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (57:01)
there hasn't been enough time for her circadian rhythm to adjust. What do you think, Laura? Is there anything you'd add to that one?
Dr Laura (57:05)
Yeah.
The only other thing that I would add, and I'm just, was just pondering whether to even raise it because she's only five and a half months old. but just because of other people listening, who may be seeing a behavior like this, in older babies and toddlers. What we know, I'm just looking at what time, your baby is going to sleep, Sarah, it's about seven 30. And then that long wake up is happening around about three hours later.
Dr Fallon (57:36)
Hmm.
Dr Laura (57:36)
If we think about sleep architecture and what happens overnight, we know that in the first few hours of the night, that's when all the deep sleep happens. And then there can be deep sleep in the latter part of the night as well, but most of it is in the very early, you know, in the first three or four hours of night, and then babies, well, we all tend to be in slightly lighter stages of sleep. We're just not having that really, really slow way of sleep further on in the night.
And sometimes what can happen, if wakes are starting, you're finding that there's a wake that's happening in those, that period of time and that your baby's really hard to settle and they might even become more escalated is that it could be a parasomnia. So it could be a night terror or,
Dr Fallon (58:29)
Mmm.
Dr Laura (58:31)
Yeah, or a compute what was sometimes known as confusion or arousals. Now, it's very unlikely, I think that you have hit the nail on the head, Fallon, that in this instance, it's nothing like that. It's just a sleep pressure issue, which is meaning that Sarah's baby just can't maintain her sleep. And she's coming up out of light sleep, out of the deep sleep rather, and then starting to move into those lighter stages of sleep or cycles of sleep. And
she just needs to have a little bit more sleep pressure to do that easily. But if you have a young, sorry, an older baby or a toddler that is just waking up in that kind of first third of the night and is when you're trying to resettle them, really, their behavior might be escalating, they don't seem to be aware that you're there. And it can just go on for a long period of time and no matter what you do, it seems to be not helping.
Then I'd be thinking about whether it is a night terror, for example, where we then want to be looking at just making sure that they're safe and comfortable and not hurting themselves and then popping them back into their cot to keep an eye on them and waiting for it to pass. So that's the only thing that I would add just for other listeners, Fallon, but not really specifically to Sarah at this time. And that's why when we're...
Dr Fallon (59:32)
Mmm.
Hmm.
Dr Laura (59:51)
Thinking about when your baby or toddler is waking overnight, it is a good idea we're keeping that sleep diary as we can see where about in the night those wakes are happening. And that gives us more information about what those wakes might mean.
Dr Fallon (59:59)
Hmm.
Yes, 100%. We've had a few parents in the last few weeks come see us in the clinic who are adamant that they don't, they're not keeping a sleep diary. We don't, the data won't help us because it's so erratic and we're like, no, really. We want to see how erratic it is. It's like sort of trying to get your car serviced, but not letting your mechanic actually look under the hood on your car. Sleep diaries are so important to our work.
Dr Laura (1:00:22)
Yes.
Yes!
Dr Fallon (1:00:32)
And we've recently made it our policy now that we, if you see us in clinic, there has to be a sleep diary because otherwise we can't give good, accurate advice. yeah, sleep diaries are, yeah, crucial. They're so, so important. all right. We had some awesome questions this week. I so thoroughly enjoyed answering them and all of these parents are just doing such a wonderful job. So.
Dr Laura (1:00:32)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:00:57)
Well done to all of you. It's, you know, can feel like you are just treading water sometimes, but what I'm hearing from parents is that they're putting so much thought into how they're sort of structuring the day and thinking about settling. And that is wonderful, wonderful. Yeah, just so, so good. So just a few little reminders as Sombelle members, you can book coaching calls directly with myself or with Laura.
Dr Laura (1:01:11)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:01:23)
They are so much fun. absolutely love getting to meet all these amazing families. And so often it's one coaching call. You've got your plan straightened out and then you hit the ground running. So if you feel like you need that little bit of support and guidance, it's a great investment and often just means quicker progress. They're selling like hotcakes at the moment. Laura, you've only got one left this week and often you don't even open up any slots. It's usually me doing more of the coaching calls, but they are in hot demand. So.
Dr Laura (1:01:46)
Yeah. No.
Yeah? Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:01:53)
Yeah, Laura, you've got one left this week. I haven't even looked at the calendar. There's probably some next week. I hope there is still is. We'll see. We have daylight savings time starting soon for some Australian states. So we're going to talk a bit more next week about how you can start to prepare your baby or your toddler for that change in time. So if you're in one of the states who does daylight savings, be sure to tune in because we'll be giving you a bit of a walkthrough on how to do it.
Dr Laura (1:02:00)
Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:02:20)
and we know so many of you send us these incredible emails about how much you love what we do and it makes our day. So thank you so, so, so much. I wish we had time to read them all out. if you've been listening, please give us a rating, give us a five star review. you know, leave us, leave us a nice little review telling us how we helped you. and be sure to hit the subscribe button. Often we listen along to podcasts on our apps and we don't actually subscribe.
Dr Laura (1:02:32)
Yes.
Dr Fallon (1:02:48)
makes a big difference when you do subscribe. It really helps other parents who are in similar situations to find us. I guess it does something with the algorithm. I don't really know. It's a mystery to us, but yeah, just go do it. It'll help somehow. And of course, if you're having sleep and settling problems, go check out Sombell. Our website talks all about what's involved in joining and what, you all the benefits that you get from it.
Dr Laura (1:02:59)
Yeah, no, does anyone? It is a mystery. Yeah. Yeah.
Dr Fallon (1:03:17)
Go and have a read and see if it's a good fit for your family. We know that lots of parents have been helped by some bowel and you might be the next one. All right, thank you everyone for listening in. Have an awesome week and we will be back again next week.
Dr Laura (1:03:23)
Mm
Thanks everyone, bye bye.
